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Post by AA0 on May 15, 2008 12:38:14 GMT
There is no reason why an MMO can't live for an exceptionally long time, but it needs proper management. Kinda odd to say it but David Bowman was in it for the long term, he was planning ahead to massive world upgrades, but I feel it was way too far ahead and severely harming the current progress.
If I was working on the game, and I saw the bleed of players the first thing I would do is stop it. There is no reason why that dragon niche has to be half assed and just plainly not enjoyable, as it is the game is about the dragons, instead of a full world. It can be both... but it won't be, the attitudes need a severe change. I'd have bet a couple years ago a risky move to overhaul the classes would have paid off big, as the game had decent exposure.. now? Nah
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2008 13:19:00 GMT
HAHAH... What bleed? The game isn't losing players, it is gaining them. maddwarf, the only person in the last four years who brings up the 35k number is you. Nobody else does, even the people working on the game. Perhaps the nature of creativity escapes some of you, but just having the opportunity to create something is often a reward in itself. So what if the game is niche and that big parts are broken. Why stress over something you can do very little about? Enjoy what you have, find small things that are fun to work on, and go with it. Thats how I see it. AA0. You may think Dragons are horribly broken and suck to play, but there are people who disagree. And guess what? They are the ones paying. You aren't. Guess which holds more weight? I used to stress a lot over parts of the game that were broken and needed overhaul and stuff. And I finally came to the conclusion that a) it would take a shit-ton of work to overhaul major components of the game and b) there's no guarantee the overhaul would draw in more players. In fact, it might alienate some and drive them away. The manpower just isn't there to do an experimental overhaul and spends months of time designing, testing and rebalancing. Not overhauls of the nature you are suggesting anyway. This is where you are wrong. The game is not just about dragons. And nobody except you has ever claimed otherwise. Nor have the bulk of content over the last year been solely for dragons. In fact, very little of it in comparison to the total was for dragons. |
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Post by AA0 on May 15, 2008 15:21:13 GMT
I would wager that most people think dragons are horribly broken, but they still play because.. .well people that play dragons are somewhat crazy.
Every game has a bleed, the net result could be positive but not nearly as positive as you would hope. I don't care how many player LoTRO had, or has, or is gaining.. I played to 50, the end game was so incredibly shitty it wasn't funny.. they bleed a lot of players from it.
And yes, it is often referred to the game that has dragons, and you may notice that a very large percentage of the people online at any time are dragons, and those that don't also have dragon players ... it is about dragons.
It still has a better feel to the game than almost anything else I've played, but there comes a point that you are either happy endlessly grinding away, then destroying what you did to keep yourself busy and regrind... or you leave because the new content really isn't anything decent because of the mass power leveling and cross skills in both adventure and craft.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2008 15:43:23 GMT
Every game, service, population, whatever has churn or turnover. Saying it doesn't make it a bad thing. But is it positive or negative? You always say it like its a bad thing. No service or game or anything has 100% retention. The goal is to have positive retention. If you are gaining and keeping more than you are losing (for whatever reasons) then it is good. Now, you certainly want that churn number to be higher and a lot of what you do is geared to affect that. Whether its stuff for low-end players or for high-end, its designed to help reduce churn. Still nothing bad about it.
And yes, I know it is a game referred to as the dragon-game. But there are still a lot of people playing who aren't dragons. And that means it isn't solely the dragon game. There are draws other than that.
You just described every game out there. "there comes a point"... yep. Istaria/Horizons is no different. Eventually everyone gets bored. You get bored with Lotro, I got bored with Lotro, half the world is bored with WoW, people are bored with Horizons, and life goes on.
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Post by FrithRae on May 15, 2008 20:05:29 GMT
Amen! Hey that's my life philoslophy..
Being one of those "dragon" players AAO talks about (yea we are weird like that). I worry for Istaria and my time in it. I've not logged in in over a month now and I have no real drive to do so. All I have left to do is work on my lair - I mean I could complete the Ancient Rites and hit 100 - but I Have no drive nor wish to do that either. I don't feel there's a "point". Most of my friends remain gone - when I do login there's not much going on (thats in public anyway). Last time I went out to hunt I got my ass handed to me immediately by mobs 3 levels or so lower than me - (that'll teach me to try that again...).
So I see wehre AA says its "broken" anyway. I'm not a huge crafter, but I"m regulated to spend my time crafting because grinding out the mobs is no longer of any interest of mine.
I continue to pay, but I'm wondering if I should give it up. I love my dragon, I just wish for the "good old days" when there was RP to get involved in easily and guildmates online to chat with.
And while Istaria has non-dragon players - I wonder if it would continue to float if the dragon players left. Which - if we had any other options - I have no doubt we would - 100% entirely.
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Post by Deth on May 15, 2008 20:22:06 GMT
he following features, changes, and fixes were applied to Blight as part of Delta 141:
* FEATURE: Add customer service support for plot purchase history.
* CHANGE: Drain Strike no longer uses the Primal skill. Other changes to the ability line:
o Now has a post-delay, a damage multiplier, does maximum damage on hit
o The amount of life drained by the hit is lower and scales based on the level of the ability
o Drain Strike now costs hoard to use
o Drain Strike now has associated animation and particle effect
* FIX: We believe that the majority of the regions which had monsters that disappeared before they could be looted, or would disappear while engaged in combat, have been fixed. If you continue to experience this bug, please submit a support ticket with the location you were fighting in and what you were fighting at the time you experienced it so we can look into that area.
o FIX: Players will find a different hunting experience in some of the following areas due to this change: Lesser Aradoth (some spawns); Selen Forest; Spiritous Swamp; Eastern Deadlands; Western Deadlands; Satyr Islands; Bitter Pickle; around most Blight Anchors; as well as Fire and Flame Wolves.
* FIX: Adjusted spawn and treasure for Selen Forest Dire Wolves.
* FIX: Fillet will no longer offer the "Iron Confectioner" quest to players who become confectioners after completing that quest series, but will give those players the "Iron Confectioner" emblem they missed out on.
* FIX: Gift of Velocity II - V will properly buff flyspeed, not bleed r.esistance.
* FIX: Primal Health is now castable by dragons.
* FIX: Gift of Velocity and Primal Health are now scribable by Dragons.
* FIX: Urgat the Wicked will now really for sure spawn deep inside the New Trismus Deadlands now.
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Post by Pharcellus on May 15, 2008 21:41:38 GMT
Surprisingly enough, even as a Helian, with most of my TPs in Health/Power/Primal, I can hunt Elnath _fairly_ decently. Some of the mobs take extra effort, but none of them I have an issue taking down, even in small groups.
That said, Mr. Rating 220 uberped waltzes through a spawn, aggros more than half of it, then proceeds to nuke it out of existence in half the time I can take down one or two. That's annoying.
Can't wait to see how the new changes affect us, though.
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Post by AA0 on May 16, 2008 12:00:00 GMT
There are some pretty incredible dragons in combat out there, Seph and ... Devlin? Been a while.
If my ranger, who is by all means quite able, rated at 134 goes to Elnath it is quite possible to end up dead. My greatest defense is to run, multiple enemies will kick my ass, no bombs, no defenses, limited healing. I could do more damage to a single mob that just about anyone on the server...
Specialization and limitation like with ranger is what limits power and makes the game fun.. instead of a grind.
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Post by maddwarf on May 16, 2008 15:01:48 GMT
grind is what istaria is and has been since launch.
perhaps thats the best anyone can expect. Its what the sand box players in istaria currently seem to enjoy
oh and amon... we both know that the game isn't breaking any records for subscriptions. Horizons presents very well up to level 20, after that it drops off very quickly and thats when most of your first time players quit. You have to do a better job in masking the grind. Which you are probably working on. Its also to bad that you guys seemed to have totally given up on the biped game ?
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Post by Pharcellus on May 16, 2008 15:54:43 GMT
I think I am a pretty incredible combat Dragon as well, considering what I have to work with.  Devlin is a bit better, because he is spent efficiently to maximize the Lunus T&C bonus, but he sucks with spells. I don't think he had enough TPs in primal to cast all the various spells, though, but it was balanced out by the extra damage he could do with T&C. Nich, you aren't the kind of uberped I am talking about. Vendilin (Devlin's Dryad alt) wasn't the kind of uberped I am talking about, though he didn't have much problem fighting multiple mobs on Elnath (I know, I used to go out as Healer to basically give him the extra margin of safety he needed to do an entire field of Blights in one pull -- his record was around 30). However, he was still pretty damn disgusting. No, the ones I am talking about had no fear of walking around down on the roads and pretty much killing their way through the fields, no matter the adds. Carinde was one of those uberpeds. She did everything she could to downplay her power, but she had no issues hunting Elnath, though it was not her preference. Hell, she didn't have any issues hunting on Dahibi, either. |
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Post by FrithRae on May 16, 2008 20:28:35 GMT
awww drain strike is linked to hoarde...damnit...
well I figured it would happen eventually...but bah...
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Kulamata
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Post by Kulamata on May 16, 2008 20:49:31 GMT
Carinde could indeed be very impressive; so could Kwinn, who hunted the Satyr isles for fun and considerable profit. His guides to high level hunting were excellent. Wonder if they're still "in print".
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Post by Pharcellus on May 17, 2008 7:24:03 GMT
Kwinn did indeed have a very intimate knowledge of uberpedism. It's only too bad that he was a complete and total jackass about it to boot.
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Post by landowyn on May 17, 2008 11:31:16 GMT
Kwinn did indeed have a very intimate knowledge of uberpedism. It's only too bad that he was a complete and total jackass about it to boot. That's what made him Kwinn. That and his Navy background.... |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2008 22:39:53 GMT
He still playing Lotro? I really had trouble knowing he was in A&A. He's such a fuck-tard.
Yes you are right. It was and still is grind in many ways. And there is very little that can be done to fix it because some of it is tied to the underpinnings of the game mechanics. Crafting for example. There is truly no way to take the grind out of it at this stage.
Not at all. Do you actually ever read the patch notes? There have been lots and lots of non-dragon-specific fixes and content additions. That said, if 50% of your game's population is Dragons then a good percent of your content/fixes should be for that segment of your population.
Its kind of like WoW. A significant percent of the players of the game raid and do high-end grinding for epic items. So it makes sense that a significant percent of their new content focuses on that part of the game.
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Devlin is a bit better, because he is spent efficiently to maximize the Lunus T&C bonus, but he sucks with spells. I don't think he had enough TPs in primal to cast all the various spells, though, but it was balanced out by the extra damage he could do with T&C.
