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Post by sheral on Jan 11, 2013 1:27:49 GMT
By the way no one forced you to come here from jolly old England, if everything there is so rosy you should get your happy ass back there. We came here because British politics suck, we did not want to emulate Britain back in the 1700's and we have not changed out minds . But I can't. It's all part of the grand immigration plan to get the right to vote so we can take away your guns and force you to have socialised health care. We'll have America back in the empire one way or another. It was half in jest. But if your kid went out and killed a load of people no one would ever insure you again, because of all the millions your insurance company would have to pay to the victims. The insurance companies would do their best to make sure they didn't have to pay out piles of cash, so they would be less likely to hand out insurance to high risk people. If you had to show your insurance to buy a gun, then they wouldn't be able to legally get one. Let good old capitalism sort it out
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Post by woooooooo on Jan 11, 2013 5:33:34 GMT
They would simply price the premiums out of most everyones reach, thereby making everyone an illegal gun owner when they dont have insurance.
How about, no?
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Post by jingles on Jan 11, 2013 13:11:48 GMT
It was half in jest. But if your kid went out and killed a load of people no one would ever insure you again, because of all the millions your insurance company would have to pay to the victims. The insurance companies would do their best to make sure they didn't have to pay out piles of cash, so they would be less likely to hand out insurance to high risk people. If you had to show your insurance to buy a gun, then they wouldn't be able to legally get one. Let good old capitalism sort it out why not just hold people accountable for their actions ? If you leave your gun unsecured and act negligently action you are held responsible for any harm that someone does with that gun. Same thing just less BS. All of my guns are locked in safes unless I am in the immediate area. If I were to leave one out and burgler stole it who later sold it to a drug dealer who used it to shoot someone I would consider myself just as guilty as the guy who pulled the trigger all your insurance suggestion would do is place further burdens on people who act responsibly which is why I say all the current discussion have absolutely nothing to do with keeping the children safe and more to do with punishing people who you politically disagree with.
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Post by jingles on Jan 11, 2013 13:19:23 GMT
They would simply price the premiums out of most everyones reach, thereby making everyone an illegal gun owner when they dont have insurance. that is the entire point of her suggestion
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Post by sheral on Jan 11, 2013 16:17:14 GMT
They would simply price the premiums out of most everyones reach, thereby making everyone an illegal gun owner when they dont have insurance. that is the entire point of her suggestion Actually, no it's not. As I've stated before, I'm not trying to stop people from owning guns. That's your inference and it's coming from your own prejudice against people who disagree with you. As a taxpayer in this wonderful country, I'm damned if I should pay to keep some chump in jail who couldn't look after his gun. And if he is stupid enough to let some dickhead get hold of his gun, and the dickhead shoots me, and can't afford to pay for my medical care, compensation, or worst possible case scenario, my funeral, then yeah, the chump should pay, and if he can't afford it, where does that leave me? At least with insurance it wouldn't be a case of 'oh, we're sorry you're paralyzed and in debt for thousands of dollars of medical expenses, but tough shit. All I'm doing is offering suggestions to help towards making things safer. It's better than sitting there with my fingers in my ears saying 'lalalalala second amendment lalalala can't take my guns away'. Which is pretty much all the gun-lobbyists are doing. You have car insurance, don't you? It's expensive but you consider it worth it in order to own a car. You know, in case you accidentally hurt someone or damage their property with your car. So why not guns? The worst that could happen is that people with mental health issues or prior history of violence might find their premiums too high, or that no one will insure them. Those who are responsible wouldn't have to worry.
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Post by tantalyr on Jan 11, 2013 16:21:25 GMT
With respect to culpability in the event that someone steals/uses a weapon that you have negligently stored, Texas--and I assume a number of other states, if not all--has statutes which impose civil (and potentially criminal) liability upon persons who negligently entrust weapons, or negligently leave them lying around when that weapon is subsequently used in any crime or other incident which results in harm to someone. The degree of liability--as you might expect--depends entirely upon the circumstances.
For example, if someone habitually leaves several loaded rifles/pistols lying around his house (i.e. not locked up in a gunsafe or otherwise hidden from view) I have no doubt at all that judges, juries and prosecutors will not hesitate to assess the maximum penalty against the guy if, say, his six-year old picks one up and blows away a playmate.
By contrast, consider the scenario where someone has a high-powered rifle in his gun rack on the back window of his pick-up truck (standard equipment on most pick-up trucks in rural counties in Texas). Even though he locked up his truck, a thief smashes the back window, steals the rifle and subsequently shoots someone with it. I can't imagine any Texas jury holding the gun owner liable, either civilly or criminally, under such circumstances.
As to the insurance question, please keep in mind that the use of a weapon taken from your home to harm someone else might well be covered by your homeowner's policy, particularly if the subsequent shooting takes place in your home (e.g., your kid shoots a playmate with your gun). So I would suggest that separate insurance for ownership of the gun itself would be redundant in most instances with already existing homeowners policies.
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Post by sheral on Jan 11, 2013 16:23:15 GMT
It was half in jest. But if your kid went out and killed a load of people no one would ever insure you again, because of all the millions your insurance company would have to pay to the victims. The insurance companies would do their best to make sure they didn't have to pay out piles of cash, so they would be less likely to hand out insurance to high risk people. If you had to show your insurance to buy a gun, then they wouldn't be able to legally get one. Let good old capitalism sort it out why not just hold people accountable for their actions ? If you leave your gun unsecured and act negligently action you are held responsible for any harm that someone does with that gun. Same thing just less BS. All of my guns are locked in safes unless I am in the immediate area. If I were to leave one out and burgler stole it who later sold it to a drug dealer who used it to shoot someone I would consider myself just as guilty as the guy who pulled the trigger all your insurance suggestion would do is place further burdens on people who act responsibly which is why I say all the current discussion have absolutely nothing to do with keeping the children safe and more to do with punishing people who you politically disagree with. Why should I have car insurance? I drive safely. It's all the other asshats who don't. Why should I have to pay when I'm responsible and take necessary care to make sure I don't run anyone over? Is that what you mean?
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Post by jingles on Jan 11, 2013 18:56:07 GMT
There were 70 million legal gun owners in the US in 2012. There were 84 killed in mass shootings. As long as you are not a career criminal ( 80%) chance of being shot at. Black male, 5K or so black males are killed every year and at least 3 K of them with guns 95% of whom are killed by other blacks you are pretty safe. On the other hand there is a 30% chance that sometime during your life you will be involved in a major car crash.
Now insurance rates are priced on an underwriting process which involves investigation into the actuary tries to predict how likely the insurance applicant will make a claim on their policy. The higher the probability of a claim, the higher the premiums usually are. Seems to me an acceptable rate would be like $1.00 per year per gun for someone like myself. I could live with that
Why don't you just admit that you could give a rats ass about that shooting in Connecticut and those kids deaths just want to force your prejudices on others. I bet you were happy when that nutjob shot those kids when you realized that you could use their deaths to further your political beliefs. Made you feel all warm and fuzzy I bet, did you have a party ?
America was founded and the constitution was written precisely to ensure that people like yourself wil never be able to do what you so deeply desire, deal with it. Want a monarchy or dictatorship, tough shit you ain't gonna get it without one helluva fight
Congress won't do shit and if Obama tries to rule executive order the law will be challenged before the ink dries on the signature
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Post by sheral on Jan 11, 2013 20:16:50 GMT
Why don't you just admit that you could give a rats ass about that shooting in Connecticut and those kids deaths just want to force your prejudices on others. I bet you were happy when that nutjob shot those kids when you realized that you could use their deaths to further your political beliefs. Made you feel all warm and fuzzy I bet, did you have a party ? America was founded and the constitution was written precisely to ensure that people like yourself wil never be able to do what you so deeply desire, deal with it. Want a monarchy or dictatorship, tough shit you ain't gonna get it without one helluva fight Congress won't do shit and if Obama tries to rule executive order the law will be challenged before the ink dries on the signature Ah, my mistake, I thought we were having a discussion. But I guess you went to the Glen Beck school of debate and when faced with reasoned argument, the best you can come up with is a load of conspiracy theory bullshit and personal attacks. Well here, have something that you will understand: Fuck you. You ignorant, stupid dumbassed fuck. If you think that I was anything less than heartbroken by the fact that those kids died you can just go and fuck yourself with your stupid fucking guns. How many fucking times do I have to fucking say that I don't fucking want to take your fucking guns away before it gets through to your shrivelled, addled little oxygen-starved fucking brain, fuckwit? Here's a solution I know you'll love: let's have barbed wire and armed guards in schools instead, so you can protect their 'freedoms'. What a fucking joke. I'm done. Talking any kind of sense to your kind is like pissing in the wind. Dumb fucking cunt.
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Post by AA0 on Jan 11, 2013 21:16:23 GMT
trolled, awesome
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Post by FrithRae on Jan 11, 2013 22:05:02 GMT
uhh not jive with the "If someone steals my guns I also get 20 yeras thing..."
My father's hunting rifles *hidden in regular duffle bags* were stolen several times out of the back of his SUVs over the years from people thinking they were going to find money...
Whatever was done with those rifles should not then make my father liable for 20 years in jail. The guns were not "expsed" and were in locked cars. The only reason people broke into his car is because they'd see him carrying money bags in/out back and forth to his job.
They never found cash, but they always found the rifles heh.
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Post by jingles on Jan 11, 2013 23:52:37 GMT
people hate it when they get called out it seems. It makes me sick that these kids are being used as a political tool. Never let a good tragedy go to waste as Obama says Love that reasonable discussion of yours Cheryl, but you are precisely the reason nothing will ever get done worthwhile as far as keeping guns out of the people who should not have them. Anytime the subject of gun control comes up the first thing the anti gun people come up with is punish the people who are law abiding. I am all for background checks, proper training and yes even gun licenses but don't try and make owning one an unreasonable burden for the law abiding citizen. anyway Frith, if the SUV were locked your dad was taking proper and prudent measures. I am referring more to people who leave a pistol in their nightstand 24 and 7. If they can afford a pistol they can afford a hundred dollar fire safe at Lowes. At minimum for a rifle or shotgun install a trigger lock. I keep my long guns in a 500 dollar gun safe, cost less than any gun in there. I keep my pistols in a 100 dollar fire safe from Lowesif it is not on my belt which and one gets transferred to the nightstand when I go to bed. If I go into a Applebees for lunch because they serve alcohol in there and I have to remove my weapon and lock it in the glovebox even if all I am having is iced tea. None of these measures will prevent a determined thief but you can only do so much. That is all I am saying
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Post by sheral on Jan 12, 2013 0:14:53 GMT
Nah, trolling takes intelligence, and king fuckwit there doesn't have any.
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Post by sheral on Jan 12, 2013 0:24:37 GMT
people hate it when they get called out it seems. It makes me sick that these kids are being used as a political tool. I said, fuck you. I didn't start this fucking conversation, I merely gave my opinion. Last I checked, I'm allowed, it's in that constitution you fuckers keep waving about when it suits your purposes and ignoring when it doesn't. I'm not campaigning for anything. I just wonder how many people have to die before you and your knuckle-dragging, home-school retard buddies will get off your high horses and fucking do something. Nothing will get done because the gun lobby has too much money behind it and every time anyone suggests doing anything about gun regulations hypocrites like you turn round and point the finger at anyone but yourselves. If you gave a shit about those kids you would do whatever it took to make sure it never happened again. So fuck you. I'm not the one politicising it. I never even brought politics up. I gave my opinions on guns and gun control. As I said, I'm allowed to have them, despite assholes like you trying to bully me into keeping quiet. You always try this, Akuma, and it's never worked yet. Someone said that when fascism came to America it would be wearing a flag and holding a cross. Well that's slightly wrong. It's already here, and it's wearing a flag and carrying a bible in one hand and an assault rifle in the other.
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Post by jingles on Jan 12, 2013 7:27:32 GMT
I see you have drank the liberal kool aid on the "gun culture" Cheryl and are regurgitating the rhetoric. My local club is capped at 650 members and we have a waiting list. The membership is so diverse it is unreal. It ranges the gamut from a retired Navy admiral and a couple of college professors to butchers and carpenters. Probably 1/4th of the members are women, we have white, black, Asian and brown members.Some of us hunt, some of us just like punch holes in paper and play urban warrior in IDPA etc matches or sniper in our long range matches. Some collect WWII era firearms and compete with those, others like to shoot with 20 pound benchrest rifles and see if they can shoot 5 shots into a two inch circle 600 yards away with them. We have a group that enjoys dressing up like cowboys and shooting old single action revolvers and double barrel shotguns like they used in the 1800's. We had a one guy who came thiisss close to making the Olympic shooting team, but was ruled out because of a genetic pulmonary disease
All we have in common and that is we love to turn money into noise. We don't hurt anyone or anything other than paper, yet instead of concentrating on the real problems in our society that led to these rampage shootings and the criminal element you want to tax and place restrictions on our hobby. To use your phrase .. fuck you nazi bitch
You don't give a flying fuck about public safety you just want to punish people who are opposed to your shit politics. You and your kind should burn in hell for using those kids deaths for your political bullshit and your hypocritical fake piety
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