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Post by Pharcellus on Jul 10, 2015 4:58:16 GMT
Never thought I would see this day come. Rep Gov Nikki Haley signed the flag removal bill into law, and that flag is finally .. history .. at least in South Carolina.
Small steps.. the symbol may be gone in one venue, but the hate and bigotry it represents still has yet to fade away. Maybe in another hundred years assuming we survive that long.
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Post by tantalyr on Jul 10, 2015 13:30:06 GMT
I certainly agree that the Confederate battle flag (which, by the way, was NOT the official flag of the Confederacy, but simply a flag carried into battle by Confederate troops) belongs in history museums, NOT on flagstaffs on state capital grounds. And I would go further and suggest that the state of Mississippi needs to adopt a new official state flag since the current one features the Confederate battle flag in its upper left quadrant.
The tougher question, in my view, is whether or not memorials to Confederate leaders and soldiers need also be removed. Memorials of one type or another dedicated to fallen Confederate soldiers are located--typically on county courthouse grounds--in a vast amount of counties throughout the south. And statues of Confederate generals and political leaders can be found on the grounds of numerous southern capitals. Most famously of all, every Confederate state which contributed troops to the Battle of Gettysburg (as well as every Union state which contributed troops to that battle) erected memorials/statues--at the behest of the U.S. Parks department--during the Civil War's centennial between 1861 and 1865 on the grounds of the Gettysburg National Park.
Should we remove all these memorials and statues in some sort of quixotic quest to erase a rather distasteful era in American history?
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Post by Pharcellus on Jul 11, 2015 0:14:07 GMT
No, memorials are like museums. They represent the past via memory. I don't want to forget the past; I just don't want to keep carrying it forward into the future.
Most of all, the soldier's memorials need to be cherished. THAT is a true legacy. They fought for their leaders, often under duress as conscripts. I understand that what they were fighting for was wrong, similar to what many Nazi soldiers fought for, however, many of them simply had no choice, or were lied to and/or misled by corrupt leaders. As long as their actions in war were honorable, like not killing civilians, or committing other war crimes, then I think they deserve to be honored and remembered with memorials.
As for removing statues and busts from capitol grounds, I suppose it depends on how they are presented. If they are in a memorial garden, essentially preserving a memory of the past, then that is fine. However, if they are presented as idols to be aspired to in the operation of the government, then no, they need to be moved -- NOT DESTROYED -- to a museum/memorial area.
The problem comes in where they, like the Confederate battle flag, are used as a symbol for continued impedance of progress against the evils and sins of the past.
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Post by tantalyr on Jul 11, 2015 1:19:14 GMT
Along the same line . . . .
Both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves (though unlike Jefferson, Washington manumitted his slaves in his will). Should we tear down both the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial in the name of political correctness?
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Post by Pharcellus on Jul 11, 2015 21:54:11 GMT
Good question.
Are those monuments representing their ownership of slaves (and their other known failures)? or are they representing/respecting them for the good work that they did in founding the country? Granted, the US itself has plenty of dark stains as well, like what we did to the Native Americans. Should we take down the American Flag, because of them?
Or is it a matter of looking at the ideals these monuments and symbols represent, even if their specific inspirations didn't get it right every time?
No, the Confederate Battle Flag doesn't count, because the ideals it represents are not ones I want represented or respected going forward.
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Post by tantalyr on Jul 14, 2015 21:12:35 GMT
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Post by Pharcellus on Jul 15, 2015 9:49:17 GMT
What a bunch of clueless twats. XD
That sculpture is the largest bas-relief in the world; it would take thousands of tons of explosives to remove it. Sandblasting... HAHAHAHA. It's fucking GRANITE. Would take millions of years to sandblast that sculpture off the mountain. It took several people decades to make it.
The park uses no tax dollars; it is fully-funded by the attractions. It is a piece of art history, and it ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
I have no great love for Lee, Davis, and Jackson, but they are there to stay.
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