Cowardly Idiot Makes Police Problem Worse in NY

[xaeris]

www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-brooklyn-sources-article-1.2051941

So basically some fucking coward (a black person, no less...) takes a gun, brags about "getting revenge" for the Ferguson and NY Deaths and decides to ambush two random cops in a squad car.

He then takes the cowardly way out and shoots himself instead of having the fucking balls to stand up for what he did.

So there's cops out there who are jittery about black people and they are profiling black people, so... a stupid black person thinks it is somehow a good idea to randomly ambush white police officers and make the problem worse.

So what are we going to have now, a war between police and black people? Oi.

Maybe if there weren't so many violent crimes being committed by blacks, police wouldn't be so quick to shoot (or in that NY case, use unnecessary force) a black suspect, ne?

I'm not racist, I have nothing against blacks, but seems to me, there's an awful lot of activity going on lately, where blacks are getting killed and they either had guns, or committed crimes or they were acting in a suspicious manner (the kid with the toy gun, that was a case of simply horrible parenting).

But either way, this is only going to make the cops MORE aggressive towards black people...

[Deleted]

Maybe if there weren't so many violent crimes being committed by blacks, police wouldn't be so quick to shoot (or in that NY case, use unnecessary force) a black suspect, ne?

That right there is a statement made from profound ignorance. I won't go so far as to say its racist, but you really need to do some research before making unfounded claims.

www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

Looks to me like the number and percentage of violent crimes lies solely in the "white" category. Of course, it isn't so simple to say "why don't you commit fewer crimes". Many violent crimes occur in areas of poverty where drugs are prevalent (both for white and non-white people). There are also some serious issues of profiling and arrest percentages that aren't in line with what they should be.

Bottom line is that the issue is not cut and dry, it isn't "black and white" (no pun intended), its nuanced, its complex, and there are numerous factors that come into play. No one single issue is going to solve these problems, but continued bad reporting by Fox News and propagation of stereotypes and poor facts will continue to exacerbate it.

The ambush was a horrible thing, to be sure. But, then, so was the choking death of someone for selling cigarettes. Lots of wrong to go around in NY these days. I'm sure there is a lot of "right" that isn't being reported by everyone. The guy in charge of the police is part of the problem, in my opinion (he's big into the militarization and heavy-handed response, a legacy of the 1990s when he was in charge before).

[xaeris]

The ambush was a horrible thing, to be sure. But, then, so was the choking death of someone for selling cigarettes. Lots of wrong to go around in NY these days. I'm sure there is a lot of "right" that isn't being reported by everyone. The guy in charge of the police is part of the problem, in my opinion (he's big into the militarization and heavy-handed response, a legacy of the 1990s when he was in charge before).

Yes, well, a black person grabbing a gun and ambushing two troopers in a squad car is sure as hell not going to make the problem any better, is it?

In fact, that's the very worst thing that any black person could do in an age where the police view black people as dangerous, suspicious, etc stuff.

And RE: Link you posted...

There are more Whites being arrested for crimes than Blacks, because there are simply more Whites living in the US than there are blacks. If there are, for example, 3x whites than blacks in the entire nation, then you would expect to see more whites being arrested total.

I'd be interested to see this compared against US Census for total population by race.

[Deleted]

There are more Whites being arrested for crimes than Blacks, because there are simply more Whites living in the US than there are blacks. If there are, for example, 3x whites than blacks in the entire nation, then you would expect to see more whites being arrested total.

Yes, but that wasn't what you originally said. You originally said "Maybe if there weren't so many violent crimes being committed by blacks, police wouldn't be so quick to shoot (or in that NY case, use unnecessary force) a black suspect, ne?". The stats don't bear that fact out.

I wanted to address one other point you made in the OP.

the kid with the toy gun, that was a case of simply horrible parenting

Taking off the orange tip was wrong, yes. (I still question the manufacturer, why can you take the orange tip off in the first place? Why not make the damned gun orange) However, the cop shot the kid 2 seconds after pulling up in the car. Seriously, 2 seconds! That isn't bad parenting, that's a cop out to kill himself a black kid. Is that racist? You fucking bet your ass it is.

[xaeris]

Taking off the orange tip was wrong, yes. (I still question the manufacturer, why can you take the orange tip off in the first place? Why not make the damned gun orange) However, the cop shot the kid 2 seconds after pulling up in the car. Seriously, 2 seconds! That isn't bad parenting, that's a cop out to kill himself a black kid. Is that racist? You fucking bet your ass it is.

I didn't say otherwise, however, it is STILL bad parenting.

Both of them are at fault.

The kid should have been taught that the police mean serious business, and that you don't go waving guns, even TOY guns, especially not those that look like real guns, around at people. If kids wanna play cops&robbers, that's what tiny squirt guns are for. That's what we were taught to use as kids.

That kid wouldn't have been shot if he were holding a tiny squirt gun. (these super soakers are just getting ridiculous in size, esp now that you have people panting real shotguns up to look like them)

[tantalyr]

I'll throw in a couple of links here that I found informative (and one hilariously so) on the whole topic.

The first is an article which collects some very interesting statistics gathered by the Centers for Disease Control regarding the number of whites killed by police vs. the number of blacks killed by police between 1999 and 2012. Note that the raw number of whites killed by police is nearly three times higher than the raw number of blacks killed by police. Also note that while the number of whites per million population killed by police has pretty much remained steady during that 13-year period, the number of blacks per million population killed by police has actually declined by 75% over the same period. Finally, as the article reminds us all, there is simply no evidence at all that the officers involved in the Ferguson, NYC and Cleveland shootings had any racial animus in killing the respective victims.

And then there's Chris Rock's amusing instructional video on how to avoid an ass-kicking by the police. As per usual, Rock's take is hysterically funny, but holds a very deep and true message.

[Pharcellus]

Your article doesn't cite any sources. It attributes some numbers to the "CDC". I smell cherry-picked data.

Sorry, without citations I can check for myself, and given the tone of the article, I ain't buyin' it.

And then there's Chris Rock's amusing instructional video on how to avoid an ass-kicking by the police. As per usual, Rock's take is hysterically funny, but holds a very deep and true message.

Really, now? I bet dollars to donuts the "very deep and true message" you come away from that "funny" video isn't the same one I come away with.

[Pharcellus]

Dec 22, 2014 12:24:32 GMT xaeris said:

I didn't say otherwise, however, it is STILL bad parenting.

You don't know that. I bet you weren't even aware that it wasn't the kid's own gun, but a friend's who gave it to him to play with that day. How is a parent supposed to teach a kid about something they didn't know he had?

Both of them are at fault.

Horseshit. That's the stupidest fucking thing I have heard in a while.

We're talking a TWELVE FUCKING YEAR-OLD CHILD versus what is supposed to be a highly-trained adult. It is clear who has the burden of responsibility, and it isn't the kid.

The kid should have been taught that the police mean serious business, and that you don't go waving guns, even TOY guns, especially not those that look like real guns, around at people. If kids wanna play cops&robbers, that's what tiny squirt guns are for. That's what we were taught to use as kids.

If the kid never owned a toy gun (his mother claimed that she didn't want him to play with guns, and that she didn't know he had been given one), there's no responsibility to teach the kid how to handle one.

There is also no indication that he didn't understand that the police mean serious business. When the police showed up, he stood up from the picnic table and walked towards them, holding the toy rifle, but not aiming at them. He didn't get three feet from the table before the moron cop shot him dead. He didn't raise the gun, he didn't reach for his belt. He stood up, walked, and fell down after being shot, all in the space of a few seconds.

That kid wouldn't have been shot if he were holding a tiny squirt gun. (these super soakers are just getting ridiculous in size, esp now that you have people panting real shotguns up to look like them)

Bullshit. You don't know that. Did you even read the police report? The police claim that he was shot because he was reaching towards his belt for something. THAT is when he was shot. It wouldn't have mattered if it was a "tiny squirt gun" or his belt buckle; the idiot would have shot him anyway.

The officer that shot him was "untrainable" and "lacked maturity" ESPECIALLY when it came to gun range practice, according to the previous department that hired him. He should not have been a cop. In addition, his partner, the driver, had cost the city $100,000 to settle a previous excessive force lawsuit.

No, the fault lies SOLELY with the officer for the death, and he should have been charged and tried for the homicide. The kid isn't responsible BECAUSE HE'S A FUCKING CHILD. The parents aren't responsible, because they didn't give him the gun.

[Pharcellus]

and it looks like Amon deleted his account since that last post. Great.

[tantalyr]

Phar: The CDC statistics on injuries/death during "legal intervention" by race, age, etc. can be found here.

As for Chris Rock's message, let me tell you a (true) story. About 20 years ago I had to attend a federal court hearing in Austin, about a 2 and a half hour drive from Houston. As the hearing was in the early afternoon, and it was a glorious fall day, I decided to drive, rather than fly, to Austin. Outside the small town of Brenham (on a major state highway) I passed a sign saying "Be Prepared to Stop. Police Checkpoint Ahead." Sure enough, a couple of miles further on there were at least 8 Washington County Sheriff's vehicles (and an equal number of regular old civilian vehicles) parked on both shoulders of the highway, and a bevy of sheriff's deputies going through the trunks and glove compartments of the civilian vehicles.

A deputy stepped onto the highway and motioned me over to the shoulder. I pulled over, stopped and got out of my then 10-year-old LTD (not some fancy sports car) dressed in a three-piece suit for my court hearing. As the deputy came up to me I asked him if anything was wrong. He responded "No, we just want your consent to search your car." I replied that while I had nothing to hide, nevertheless I knew a few things about the Constitution and the Fourth Amendment. And I knew that police must have probable cause to believe I had committed a crime in order to search my car without a warrant, and then only the areas I had immediate access to, like under my seat, to ensure I couldn't retrieve a weapon. So I asked him what crime he had probable cause to believe I had committed.

He angrily responded that the sign a few miles back warned of the police checkpoint and told me again that he wanted my consent to search my car. And I told him again that I wouldn't give that consent unless he told me what crime he had probable cause to believe I had committed. The deputy then walked over to a gaggle of deputies, spoke to them, and then all five of them walked over to me, led by the sheriff himself. The sheriff very sternly asked me what my problem was. I responded that I didn't have a problem, but that I knew that over a half-century of US Supreme Court precedent required police to have probable cause to believe I had committed some crime before they could conduct a warrantless search of my car. And I just wanted to know what crime his deputy had probable cause to believe I had committed before motioning for me to pull over and stop.

The sheriff then asked--in the same stern tone--if I wanted to spend the night in the Washington County jail. And I replied that was up to him, but if he was going to haul me off to jail I needed to call Judge Sam Sparks--the federal judge I had my hearing in front of--to advise him that I wouldn't be able to appear for the hearing because the Washington County sheriff had arrested me for exercising my rights under the Fourth Amendment and refusing to voluntarily consent to a warrantless search of my car when neither the sheriff nor his deputies could articulate any probable cause to believe I had committed any crime.

The sheriff thought a moment, then told me to get back in my car and be on my way--BUT I had better be very careful obeying the speed limit in "his" county from now on because he "had his eye on me." So I drove off.

So, I have indeed faced down police whom I knew were wrong. That said, if we change up the story a bit and say that the sheriff (or one of his deputies) had drawn a weapon, pointed it at me and told me to lie face down on the ground, would I have done so even knowing that was wrong, wrong, wrong? Absolutely! Why? Because he could kill me. It's no different from a mugger holding a gun on me and demanding my wallet. I'm going to hand over my wallet even though I know the mugger has no legal right to it because it just ain't worth dying for.

Simple moral of the story: just do what the cops tell you to do, especially if they have weapons drawn. You will therefore live to fight about the rightness or wrongness of the cops' conduct in court, rather than leaving it to your wife and kids to do it.

[Kulamata]

Dec 23, 2014 6:01:34 GMT Pharcellus said:

and it looks like Amon deleted his account since that last post. Great.

I am so very sorry to hear that!