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Post by Pharcellus on Aug 18, 2014 6:51:33 GMT
www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/rick-perry-indictment_n_5685735.htmlTalk about not seeing that one coming.. I would say it couldn't happen to a better crook in the person of Rick Perry, but I also am not real keen on the DA whom he was trying to oust. She was a real piece of work - DUI. Still, there has to have been a more legal and proper way to get her out of office. The first felony charge carries a prison term of 10 years, and the second one from 5 to 99 years. O.o I wonder what the chance is that he'll actually serve time, let alone be convicted.
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Post by tantalyr on Aug 18, 2014 14:46:35 GMT
The betting line is that the trial court will dismiss the indictment outright, and that the dismissal will be upheld on appeal, due to the fact that a veto--including the threat of a veto--is an official act. Under the law, exercising or threatening to exercise a power that is constitutionally granted to an official cannot be deemed a criminal act regardless of the motive behind the exercise of the veto, or the threat to do so.
I am no fan at all of my state's governor, but this indictment is a very troubling overreach by the Austin DA.
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Kulamata
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Post by Kulamata on Aug 19, 2014 0:33:10 GMT
Here are two articles that dig a little deeper. The first is by a Texas defense lawyer, and gives some background, eventually agreeing with Tant that conviction is unlikely. I've seen the same information elsewhere, but these two articles between them seem the most complete. www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322633/-What-you-need-to-know-about-the-Rick-Perry-indictment The second article gives more background, and the core is taken from The Texas Observer. www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/16/1322201/-Why-I-agree-that-Rick-Perry-s-line-item-veto-was-an-abuse-of-power-this-time I've excerpted some of the second article, hoping to entice those too ummm busy to click through. I'd agree that the indictment is an overreach probably, but I also think that the use of a line item veto to do away with an elected overseer who is in an investigation that could include the governor and/or his friends and allies, and that would allow the governor to replace the elected overseer with an one appointed by him is, at the very least, a worse abuse of power. I haven't seen the grand jury proceedings published (if they even are in TX), so we don't know what the grand jury heard that caused them to indict. I would guess that indicting a governor is not something done casually.
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Post by tantalyr on Aug 19, 2014 1:13:44 GMT
There's a time-honored axiom in the law, Kula, that goes like this: "A prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich." Given the processes of a grand jury--including that the targeted defendant cannot testify on his own behalf unless he's "invited" to by the prosecutor, and even when the defendant testifies he cannot have his counsel with him in the grand jury room--it's pretty much of a charade. It's the very poor prosecutor who, in such a one-sided process, cannot get a grand jury to indict whomever he's after. Scary thought, but it's true.
Couple that with the well-known fact that Austin is the only major city in Texas which is heavily Democratic--yes, the Austin District Attorney is a Democrat, just like all of his predecessors for the last 35 years--and is it really any shock at all that he managed to get an indictment of Governor Perry?
On a side note, the current Austin DA's predecessor managed to indict former House Majority Leader Tom Delay on criminal campaign finance violations AND got a jury to convict him. But that conviction was thrown out by Texas appellate courts which held that the indictment should have been quashed in the first instance.
As I stated earlier, I cannot stand my state's governor. He's a doofus of the highest caliber. But it's not a crime to be an idiot who belongs to the opposing party . . . .
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Kulamata
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Post by Kulamata on Aug 20, 2014 0:02:58 GMT
Found a fine article in the Texas Observer. www.texasobserver.org/pundits-dont-get-rick-perry-indictment/A key point about the investigation and indictment; it was the work of a special prosecutor with strong Republican credentials. The Austin area DA is not relevant at all. To quote from the article: The issue of major concern is apparently not the veto, but the threat of its use to influence a public official, which is considered coercion. Further quote, although I feel that the original article is well worth reading in its entirety:
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Post by tantalyr on Aug 20, 2014 12:28:59 GMT
@ Kula-- You are quite right that the Travis County (Austin) District Attorney did not secure the Perry indictment, and I apologize for my mistaken belief to the contrary. That said, however, I would caution against making much of the Republican bona fides of either the special prosecutor, Michael McCrum, or the San Antonio (Bexar County) judge who appointed him. According to McCrum's website, which can be found here,, he is a white collar criminal defense attorney who previously served as a prosecutor in the Western District's district attorney's office (which covers Austin, San Antonio and El Paso, among other cities). That position is not appointive by the federal government, but instead is filled by the district attorney's office according to regulated employment practices (think Jack McCoy in Law and Order). Although he was supported by not only Texas's two Republican senators, but by the majority of the Texas Democratic Congressional Delegation, for appointment as the district attorney for the Western District, he withdrew his name from consideration. So, while McCrum may not be some wild-eyed liberal (although statistically most criminal defense lawyers do tend to be liberal in their outlook and politics), nor can he be said to be some conservative stalwart. As for the Republican judge who appointed McCrum, the Honorable Robert Richardson, you should understand that Texas (very unfortunately) elects its judges at all levels. Thus, candidates for judicial office must (again, very unfortunately) adopt party monikers to have any chance of success at the polls. And as you might suspect lawyers would do, judicial candidates typically claim to be whatever party seems to hold the political reigns at the moment. As a result, since Texas is overwhelmingly Republican--and has been for more than two decades--smart candidates strive to be the Republican nominee for the judgeship they seek. Indeed, well over half the judges in Harris County (Houston) are "Republican," but having personally represented clients before most of the current judges here I can say that many of those so-called Republicans are far from conservative. As for the merits of the flimsy two-page indictment, here's the basic problem. Both the president and state governors have the right to veto any legislation that comes before them under their respective constitutions. Analogous to an employer's right to fire an at-will employee at any time for any reason, the president and governors have the right to veto legislation for good reason, bad reason or no reason at all. And threats of veto have for two hundred years or more been part of the American political fabric--the give and take between the executive and legislative branches of government. Couple that with a governor's (indeed every citizen's) First Amendment right to criticize the government and its officers, and to demand redress. In this case, Perry vented about the chief of the Texas government integrity unit after she was arrested for DUI and behaved aggressively and totally inappropriately toward the arresting officers and jailers. And he threatened to veto--and in fact did veto--funding for that unit if she did not step down. Seeking to criminalize this behavior sets a very, very dangerous precedent. It would open the door to criminally indict any president or any governor who vetoed--or even threatened to veto--any measure passed by the legislative branch. The veto power is one of the principal powers of the executive to guard against excesses by the legislature--it is one of the fundamental features of the bedrock separation of powers doctrine which girds our national and state constitutions. Criminalizing the use--or the threat to use--that power would destroy that bedrock principal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 13:12:50 GMT
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Post by Pharcellus on Aug 23, 2014 19:08:17 GMT
The thing is that, sure, Perry's actions in this situation, taken individually on their own, are just fine. However, their combination and intent is what is being challenged, and rightly so.
We'll have to wait and see what the prosecution has dug up when it presents its case, but I think it will be far more substantial than a ham sandwich.
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