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Post by jingles on Jan 9, 2013 14:04:43 GMT
don't need no asault weapon or a degree in chemistry to kill a lot of people Daegu subway fire was a mass murder on February 18, 2003 which killed at least 198 people and injured at least 147. An arsonist set fire to a train stopped at the Jungangno Station of the Daegu Metropolitan Subway in Korea. 2 milk jugs of gas and a lighter this guy ran out of ammo so he decided to burn, chop up and strangle instead. On February 11, 1957 William Unek armed with a stolen police rifle, 50 rounds of ammunition and an axe, he started killing people in the area of Malampaka, a village about 40 miles southeast of Mwanza. Within twelve hours Unek shot dead ten men, eight women and eight children, murdered five more men with the axe, stabbed another one, burned two women and a child and strangled a 15-year-old girl, thus killing a total of 36 people, before fleeing. Construction equipment works real good. The 2010 Hebei tractor rampage was a spontaneous mass murder incident in which 17 people were killed in Yuanshi County, Hebei, China by a shovel loader. And more gas and a zippo lighter. In 2009 Kuwait wedding fire was an arson attack that occurred during a wedding ceremony in Jahra, Kuwait on August 15, 2009. At least 57 people were killed and about 90 others wounded when the groom's 23-year-old ex-wife decided to take revenge for her husband's second marriage, poured gas on a tent where women and children were celebrating and set it on fire Granpa's Buick works pretty well. In 2006, George Weller was found guilty of 10 counts of vehicular manslaughter after he drove his car through a crowded open-air marketplace in Santa Monica. prior to the 1990's school shootings, workplace killings, and rampage killings in general were rare occurrences. They began increasing in the 1990's, Brady assault weapons bill was from 1994 - 2004). During the last 2 years there have been a significant increase. But to keep things in perspective according to this article in USA Today www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/18/mass-killings-common/1778303/ from the time period of 2006 to 2010 mass killings still accounted for only a tiny fraction — about 1% — of all the Americans who were murdered over those five years. During those five years, more died from migraines and falling out of chairs than were murdered by mass killers, according to death records kept by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Three times as many people perished from sunstroke.
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Post by sheral on Jan 9, 2013 17:11:51 GMT
don't need no asault weapon or a degree in chemistry to kill a lot of people Daegu subway fire was a mass murder on February 18, 2003 which killed at least 198 people and injured at least 147. An arsonist set fire to a train stopped at the Jungangno Station of the Daegu Metropolitan Subway in Korea. 2 milk jugs of gas and a lighter this guy ran out of ammo so he decided to burn, chop up and strangle instead. On February 11, 1957 William Unek armed with a stolen police rifle, 50 rounds of ammunition and an axe, he started killing people in the area of Malampaka, a village about 40 miles southeast of Mwanza. Within twelve hours Unek shot dead ten men, eight women and eight children, murdered five more men with the axe, stabbed another one, burned two women and a child and strangled a 15-year-old girl, thus killing a total of 36 people, before fleeing. Construction equipment works real good. The 2010 Hebei tractor rampage was a spontaneous mass murder incident in which 17 people were killed in Yuanshi County, Hebei, China by a shovel loader. And more gas and a zippo lighter. In 2009 Kuwait wedding fire was an arson attack that occurred during a wedding ceremony in Jahra, Kuwait on August 15, 2009. At least 57 people were killed and about 90 others wounded when the groom's 23-year-old ex-wife decided to take revenge for her husband's second marriage, poured gas on a tent where women and children were celebrating and set it on fire Granpa's Buick works pretty well. In 2006, George Weller was found guilty of 10 counts of vehicular manslaughter after he drove his car through a crowded open-air marketplace in Santa Monica. prior to the 1990's school shootings, workplace killings, and rampage killings in general were rare occurrences. They began increasing in the 1990's, Brady assault weapons bill was from 1994 - 2004). During the last 2 years there have been a significant increase. But to keep things in perspective according to this article in USA Today www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/18/mass-killings-common/1778303/ from the time period of 2006 to 2010 mass killings still accounted for only a tiny fraction � about 1% � of all the Americans who were murdered over those five years. During those five years, more died from migraines and falling out of chairs than were murdered by mass killers, according to death records kept by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Three times as many people perished from sunstroke. I suppose you think this guy is a rational human being, too: www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2013/01/08/piers-debates-man-who-tried-to-deport-him.html?source=socialflow&account=thedailybeast&medium=facebookYou can throw those figures around all you want. Statistics can be twisted to make your point, as Yuusuke proved earlier but it doesn't change the fact that in countries where there is gun regulation, the deaths from firearms is way, way lower than in the US.
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Post by jingles on Jan 9, 2013 17:31:23 GMT
what figures Cheryl ? I was simply illustrating the point that there are far more ways to kill someone other than using a gun, a jug of gas and a lighter seems to be very efficient. Suppose instead of a rifle that kid in Connecticut had walked around the school lobbing molotov cocktails through the schools windows? I dare say the body count would have been far greater. Or if he taken a car and drove through the fence on the playground during recess. Maybe instead of a AR15 got himself a shotgun and used some 00, that would be like firing a 9mm 9 times every time he pulled the trigger. but if you want some figures and stats which you will simply ignore because they don't suit your prejudices here you go a peer reviewed paper by Dr Joyce Malcolm of Harvard www.saf.org/journal/16/guncontrolinengland.pdfan excerpt speaking of England , I wonder how many here know that one of the reasons we have a second amendment was because in England at that time part of the persecution of Catholics was that the Catholics were not allowed to own weapons. Disarming the public or at least disarming subgroups of the population who disagree with your political agenda is a time honored tactic for monarchies and dictatorships interestingly there were some in the UK that wanted to ban baseball bats during the 2011 riots because sales of them went through the roof purchased by people who had no way of defending themselves against the rioters www.pcworld.com/article/237616/baseball_bat_sales_rise_on_amazon_uk.htmlBut enough of England if I wanted to live where there were wall to wall liberals and shit weather I would just move to Portland, at least they have dentists there
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xaeris
Apprentice of Rant
Posts: 462
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Post by xaeris on Jan 10, 2013 12:24:08 GMT
Eeeek.
Now THAT is a fairly horrifying thought. Any school that has a wide-open field that is protected only by a fence, all you'd need is a decently sturdy vehicle (a full-size pickup would do). I know the school I went to IRL had a fairly wide access, wide enough to fit a vehicle through, that is only about 20 yards away from the school's parking lot.
Should someone with a pickup truck decided that bowling for kids was the way to go.... well.
I'm thinking certain events we had back in my day when I went to school there, you'd have people asking for a ban on 4x4 pickup trucks instead of assault weapons if someone had actually done that.
But should we ban pickup trucks too, since now they're an effective weapon?
Should we ban jugs of gasoline too while we're at it?
Or, like those riots in England, baseball bats, because yaknow, those people are going out and buying baseball bats up during the riots?
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Post by FrithRae on Jan 10, 2013 17:33:55 GMT
A hand gun is restricted and has a mandatory locking system installed, they would take even longer than a rifle to get ready. The US seems to have this massive gun paranoia going on, like you feel you need to be armed or people are going to come and kill you. I don't know whats up with that. I think Michael Moore did the documentary Bowling for Columbine when that happened (It might have been another one of his films though.) In it he walked up to a house in Windsor and opened the door. He proved that we don't lock our doors during the day, while that might have been shocking to Americans, it was more shocking to me that Americans are so paranoid that they feel this has to happen to be safe. I don't lock my doors when I'm home and awake, why would I? Geez, if people in Windsor of all places don't lock their doors, then who should? It is one of the worst places in Canada. Which came first - the paranoia, too many guns, or the reality? I know of several breakins near my neighborhood just in the last few months. Someone I knew down the street DROVE UP in the middle of the afternon to people stealing stuff out of his house! B'ham is one of the most dangerous cities in the country (one crime stat poll I saw listed it as 16th) and Besssemer, a "city but a suburb of bham" was actually listed like 11th. Even higher. So fuck yea I'm armed in my house. Better be safe than sorry. But no, at least in the South, and in Alabama - if someone busts into my house and I shoot them in self-defense, injured or killed, legally I'm allowed to shoot in defense of my property and myself. If they die, I am not on manslaughter charges. Unless like, they proved I tied him up and shot him 12 times first; or that he was laying on the floor waiting on police and I shot him anyway. Which I would do none of those things first, because he'd get one yelled "I HAVE A GUN GET THE FUCK OUT" before I opened fire...
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Post by FrithRae on Jan 10, 2013 17:40:19 GMT
Eeeek. Now THAT is a fairly horrifying thought. Any school that has a wide-open field that is protected only by a fence, all you'd need is a decently sturdy vehicle (a full-size pickup would do). I know the school I went to IRL had a fairly wide access, wide enough to fit a vehicle through, that is only about 20 yards away from the school's parking lot. Don't start thinking about it. It really will be terrifying how many options someone has right now outside of guns that are not protected against *at all* Because the fact is we are sooooo wide open everywhere to huge mass slaughters we don't even get it... But yes, that is a viable means of slaughter without using guns. But the movie theater or mall rampage (guy was thankfully a shit shot...), I've honestly wondered why it took so long for some crazy and/or terrorist cell to take advantage of the lack of security anywhere in like 80% of our public venues. Sure your airport might feel safer; but the average time one spends in an airport vs. a mall or a walmart is small c ompartively. But all the rest of the locations we're unprotected at, mass slaughter would be easily possible. Without guns; as Jingles said - even with just some gas and a lighter; or a car...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2013 17:49:09 GMT
Maybe I'm not getting it... I GET defending yourself or your family. But everything else is STUFF. Material goods that can be replaced. So somehow it seems very wrong to take a life that cannot be replaced in exchange for a bunch of material stuff that can be replaced. Guess its just a sign of the times that everyone is so f'n attached to their material stuff.
Maybe I just see it differently because I have had to make really hard choices about my stuff (what to keep, what not to keep) in the past when things went south and so I am far less attached to it anymore.
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Post by jingles on Jan 10, 2013 20:03:10 GMT
way I see it if someone wants to mug me or carjack me so be it, I can cancel the credit cards and file for insurance. I have a CCW, practice regularly and play wannabe swat once a month in IDPA completion. so it is not a question of whether I could shoot them, I just feel like Amonwareth. My car, TV and the blood on my hands just ain't worth the lawyer fees. Now breaking into my house at night or attempting bodily harm to myself or any other human is where I draw the line. If you are going to rob me do it outside of my house and I will probably let you live unless you really piss me off.
What I would like to see come out of this is:
a requirement that any firearm transaction be carried out through a FFL. FFL's should be require to run background checks for personal transactions either free of charge or for a minimal fee ( $10 max) in order to qualify as a FFL holder.
concealed carry holders should be required to practice on a quarterly basis and re qualify in a practical shooting test once every 2 to 4 years.
More money into the mental health care treatment. We have been cutting funds from this for years and we wonder why more crazy shit is happening, it ain't rocket science.
Stricter enforcement of existing laws. Use a gun in a crime, mandatory 20 years with no parole. Shoot someone during the commission , life with no parole even if the victim was only wounded. Participate in a straw purchase of a gun 20 years minimum. Get caught with a stolen weapon 10 years no parole.
Guns should be locked in a safe unless the owner is present, not sure how that one could be enforced but it would cut down on stolen weapons being used in crimes. Allowing a children to access a gun without adult supervision is pretty foolish also. I had 3 guns of my own by the time I was 16, but I was raised in a rural atmosphere in a time where that was common and if we were caught acting unsafely our asses were tanned.
Large capacity magazines I am iffy about. I have no use for one but I also have no use for a $5000 Italian skeet shotgun. I also see no use other than as collectors items such weapons as a AK47. FN FALs, look alike UZIs and MAC 10's etc. Still some do enjoy collecting them and punching holes in paper with them so again I am conflicted on banning them
I would Like to see the recognition of the AR15 as a legit sporting/hunting rifle. A good one is capable of tackdriving accuracy and are used in at least 3 sanctioned shooting events. Also from what I hear they are rapidly replacing the old Ruger Mini 14 as the truck gun of choice for ranchers and farmers for varmint control. The .223 is a pretty weak cartridge as far as hunting goes but for varmints up to 80 pounds or so they are effective. I have 2 and while one is fun to shoot it is not all that on accuracy while the other can put 5 shots in less than a inch circle at 200 yards and I have shot it at 600 and 800 with fair results. The itty bitty bullets get pushed around a lot in the wind though.
Also every time I hear some talking head or politician talking about high capacity clips I just want to scream. Learn the correct nomenclature idiots. A clip is a device to used to load the internal magazines of WWII weapons
Pretty tired of duck hunters telling me how many rounds a magazine should hold. In IDPA matches you are limited to 10 rounds, in USPA competition 33 round magazines are the norm. When I shoot Steel with my one of my .22's the magazines for that gun are only ten rounds so I need to have 5 fully loaded for each stage. When I shoot it with one of my 9's I carry 4 magazines loaded to 17 rounds each. 25 to 30 rounds are fired per stage. 5 strings of 5 targets per stage so you should have a minimum of 7 in a magazine before shooting a string in case of a miss or 2
With a small amount of practice anyone can change magazines in less than a second, I was averaging 10 to 12 seconds to shoot 6 shots of 2 rounds per magazine while changing magazines twice earlier. That involved drawing from holster, shooting a paper plate 15 yards ways , changing magazines, rinse and repeat on second and third plate. That is a good 2 to 3 seconds slower from where I need to be to get into the top 5 in my club. Iam a middle of the pack competitor. I saw a video of this Army team shooter on a steel stage hitting 5 targets in less than 2 seconds, no magazine change of course, now that is fast. It is also amusing to here libs on TV speculate on charging someone with a shotgun as they reload. As someone who has been exposed to firearms for more years than I want to admit, I would be hauling ass in the opposite direction. Anyone foolish enough to try the rush thing probably needs to be removed from the gene pool anyway so wtf go for it. You will either be a hero or a corpse, I would give 4 to 1 odds on corpse.
just my rant for the day, thanks for reading
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Post by woooooooo on Jan 10, 2013 20:57:15 GMT
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Post by sheral on Jan 10, 2013 21:00:45 GMT
18 homicides by firearms in 2009 in the UK. 18. I linked to the Australian university study in my other post in answer to Yuusuke. Out of 135 total deaths by firearms, so I'm guessing the rest were suicides or accidental. So, again, if that's an 80-odd percent increase, what were the figures before? Percentages don't mean jack shit. Anyone can twist them. "Oh, the figures for gun deaths have gone up from 1 to 2, that's 100%!" I'm not prejudiced. I'm not calling for a ban on guns. I don't like them, personally, but that doesn't mean I want to take peoples rights away. I have family who own guns, and even they agree there should be regulations and proper licencing on firearms. You need a licence and insurance to drive a car. You have to pass a test. Why not to own a gun? Why is that too much to ask? Yeah that's why the conservatives are currently fucking up the country with austerity measures they admit aren't working. But whatever. Welcome back, Akuma.
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Post by woooooooo on Jan 10, 2013 21:01:45 GMT
Bout fuckin time Akuma.
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Post by woooooooo on Jan 10, 2013 21:05:24 GMT
So Ill weigh in here. I have actually read most of this stuff (including Phar's). I agree with a lot thats being said.
1 - We need to close the loophole on gun shows
2 - We dont need legislation for guns, we need help for those who arent right. We are far too accepting a society now. Nut-Fucks 20 years ago were kept away from the general populace. For a good damn reason.
3 - In both Sandy Hook and Webster, those weapons were purchased legally, but obtained illegally by the perp
4 - Despite the FOIA, newspapers should not be publishing who has registered permits for handguns. Bad precedence.
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Post by sheral on Jan 10, 2013 21:21:50 GMT
So Ill weigh in here. I have actually read most of this stuff (including Phar's). I agree with a lot thats being said. 1 - We need to close the loophole on gun shows 2 - We dont need legislation for guns, we need help for those who arent right. We are far too accepting a society now. Nut-Fucks 20 years ago were kept away from the general populace. For a good damn reason. 3 - In both Sandy Hook and Webster, those weapons were purchased legally, but obtained illegally by the perp 4 - Despite the FOIA, newspapers should not be publishing who has registered permits for handguns. Bad precedence. I actually agree with you on 1, the second part of 2 (personally, I think it needs both regulations on guns AND dealing with mental health better) I definitely agree with you on 4. That kind of stupidity helps neither side. 3. Yes, they were. That's the point though. One of the excuses is that criminals will get guns even if there are regulations. And yeah, they will, but it's not generally crims who go on a rampage. So, IMO, regulations should include some kind of rules for keeping your guns safe, so your mentally ill kid can't get hold of them and go on a killing spree. Perhaps there should be insurance? Like for cars. If you kill someone with your car, your insurance takes a knock. If you drive drunk, you lose your licence, etc. Common sense stuff, really, when you take out the knee-jerk reactions.
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Post by jingles on Jan 11, 2013 0:02:14 GMT
not sure why some consider being killed with a gun different from being burned to death, ran over with a car or beaten to death with a baseball bat. To me dead is dead , but this isn't about killing anyway is it. This is just a attempt to punish those nasty old conservatives who cling to their guns and religion. Shame that people use the deaths of children for their own petty attempts to make others as miserable as they are.
St Peter say's well I got good news and bad news for you. The guys says give me the bad news first, St Peter say's the bad news is your wife poured gas all over you and burned you to death. The good news is at least she did not shoot you.
sorry sick sense of humor
Anyway judging from the comments on CNN and CBS stories I think Biden's little trial balloon yesterday did not bring fort the reaction Obama hoped it would.
Those who want to see all the guns in America melted into scrap should prepare themselves for frustration
By the way no one forced you to come here from jolly old England, if everything there is so rosy you should get your happy ass back there. We came here because British politics suck, we did not want to emulate Britain back in the 1700's and we have not changed out minds
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Post by jingles on Jan 11, 2013 0:08:48 GMT
so your mentally ill kid can't get hold of them and go on a killing spree. Perhaps there should be insurance? Like for cars. If you kill someone with your car, your insurance takes a knock. If you drive drunk, you lose your licence, etc. Common sense stuff, really, when you take out the knee-jerk reactions. I will go you one further, if someone takes a gun of yours that was not secured properly and commits a crime then 20 years no parole. Owning a weapon means you are taking responsibility for any thing done with it in my opinion. Also am I the only one that finds humor in the fact that you suggested insurance LOL. Sorry sir but your kid just killed 10 of his fellow students, the good news is he only wounded the other 5. That means your premiums will only go up a thousand dollars a year on that shotgun but I am afraid you will lose your safe shooting discount
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