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Post by arseovrteakettl on Jul 20, 2005 12:48:07 GMT
Nice to hear from you Nescio. As for emotion and boards and such, well I guess maybe I just don't read people too well on boards. I come with the default set that most people mean well, and I'll try to give them a benefit of the doubt. I find often people can get pissed off about a certain thing, but I look at such things and view the events as not really that malicious. Not always the case, but at least some of the time. In fact thinking about that reminds me of a time back when I played horizons, our entire guild split in two because the "leader of the pack" and a few others felt the leader was being arrogant, but he explained himself that he didn't mean to, and that he was only leader after all because people wanted him to be. Yet it still caused a scism and it took a long time for any kind of reconsiliation to happen. I even got shunned because I didn't "stick up for my friends" where in reality I just looked at the situation, didn't really see anything deliberately malicious and didn't see why people couldn't just work out their differances. Also I don't get too deep into heated dicussions here as I tend to lurk, and post the odd comment if I feel it would contribute something. So maybe that is why I'm not feeling these heated emotions. Only times I have felt heated emotions online during debates was with people on IRC where I can encounter people entirely unwilling to budge from clearly (to me) false points of view with no merit whatsoever. But that's more live and to me, more personal and the people there are generally less reasonable than what I have experianced here. So I guess I'm just not in the fold enough to understand fully how you all feel about events on these forums at least. Or maybe its just me.. *sigh* Its not just you. Ive reached my dead horse button after slinging it out in the PVP thread. Only to discover we are STILL talking about our selves and not any subjects beyond it. I came here to debate in a free thought manner. My goal was never to personally attack and offend people for pleasure. Nescio coming back reminded me of that. This is now how i feel ive become. Im not happy about being labeled something im not in real life (tm). So ive failed here big time. What a complete waste of time. I know exactly how you feel, tonic. You haven't failed here. You are one of the few people who managed to keep a sense of humor here through all this stupidity.
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Post by FrithRae on Jul 20, 2005 14:47:43 GMT
Rule number one" is a load of crap, really. We discuss politics here. We discuss personal issues, we discuss hot topics that most people who post have personal connections and strong feelings regarding. We make friends, temporal allies, enemies, temporal hate objects. It cannot be done without emotions. Especially not in a rant forum. For crying out loud, it cannot even be done in circles of higher study - humans are and will always be emotional in nature. So reading forums like this we get hurt, we feel praise. We laugh, as naturally as we start to cry. Rule Number One is not crap you are misperceiving it. Which is really all that has been going on here the last two weeks - a whole bunch of misperceived assumptions and miscommunication. I'm not saying there won't be passion and emotion - I'm saying don't be taking things personally. From people who really don't know YOU. (you as in general you, not you personallky Nescio, You as in all of us) They don't know the tone in which you say things, they dont know your history. They don't know you well enough to know what you're "trying" to say, only what they "think" you are saying. So don't take the opinions and bashes and flames and whatever of people who don't really know *you* and take those PERSONALLY to such an extent that it actually does damage to your psyche and you have to leave because you are so upset. THAT is Rule Number One. has nothing to do with strong feelings or passion - has to do with taking it personally - when really noone has a reason to. Very few of us are actual REAL "Friends" so to speak. How long have you conversed with wsomeone in private - how much of your life do they REALLY know about. How much of theirs do you? Have you ever spoken on the phone for htem to know your tone when you're sarcastic or joking or what sense of humor you have. Have you ever met them in person? If you haven't done the last two - then you know what it takes a really long time for that person to really "know" you otherwise. I've been online for over 10 years now, I've seen "friends" come and go - and realized they weren't actually friends but perhaps good buddies. And also realized sometimes they had no clue who *I* was, even if I thought they did. Yea and you know what, I'd say you, Cath, Alge, Sheral, and everyone else who left - forgot that too. And I don't say it maliciously, I say it in the way you mean it. I think everyone forgets it from time to time, but you know some people try and work out what it was that got hurt/misunderstood/miscommunicated. They give some the benefit of the doubt and go "wait that can't be what he REALLY means...maybe something is off". Or just like in Real life, they don't even try - they just storm off and never talk to you again. Totally agree. And it applies to Everyone - not just those who are "left" I for one would be pleased as punch for EVERY ONE of them to come back - let things get worked out - let miscommunications get understood. But that takes patience, understanding, empathy and time. Some of which some of us may not be wiling to give *shrugs* Ignore those, and grow with the ones who are willing . I mean Tant is saying "look shit got misconstrued" basically. And I think it really is true - and I think its pretty true in almost all threads I read. I get passion I get moved and I get "heated" in the forum. But if I start getting really "bothered" by what other are saying, I also realize that you know what - they probably aren't "getting" what I'm trying to say the way I'm saying it. And in the end, they really don't know me well enough - and I need to try harder. But at the end of the day I don't ALLOW myself to lose sleep over things people say who don't really know *me* People come into my office every day, their lives in ruin with pills and disorders - because they give too much power and credit to people who shouldn't really effect them at all. People who dont know them, don't understand what they do - and yet these pepole who have no clue who the client realy is- somehow manage to destroy the client. That's not right - but its no more the fault of the person who doeesn't know them, than it is their own fault for allowing that opinion to have any power over them. It just doesn't need to be that way. Frith-Rae
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Post by arseovrteakettl on Jul 20, 2005 14:58:27 GMT
Rule number one" is a load of crap, really. We discuss politics here. We discuss personal issues, we discuss hot topics that most people who post have personal connections and strong feelings regarding. We make friends, temporal allies, enemies, temporal hate objects. It cannot be done without emotions. Especially not in a rant forum. For crying out loud, it cannot even be done in circles of higher study - humans are and will always be emotional in nature. So reading forums like this we get hurt, we feel praise. We laugh, as naturally as we start to cry. Rule Number One is not crap you are misperceiving it. Which is really all that has been going on here the last two weeks - a whole bunch of misperceived assumptions and miscommunication. I'm not saying there won't be passion and emotion - I'm saying don't be taking things personally. From people who really don't know YOU. (you as in general you, not you personallky Nescio, You as in all of us) They don't know the tone in which you say things, they dont know your history. They don't know you well enough to know what you're "trying" to say, only what they "think" you are saying. So don't take the opinions and bashes and flames and whatever of people who don't really know *you* and take those PERSONALLY to such an extent that it actually does damage to your psyche and you have to leave because you are so upset. THAT is Rule Number One. has nothing to do with strong feelings or passion - has to do with taking it personally - when really noone has a reason to. Very few of us are actual REAL "Friends" so to speak. How long have you conversed with wsomeone in private - how much of your life do they REALLY know about. How much of theirs do you? Have you ever spoken on the phone for htem to know your tone when you're sarcastic or joking or what sense of humor you have. Have you ever met them in person? If you haven't done the last two - then you know what it takes a really long time for that person to really "know" you otherwise. I've been online for over 10 years now, I've seen "friends" come and go - and realized they weren't actually friends but perhaps good buddies. And also realized sometimes they had no clue who *I* was, even if I thought they did. Yea and you know what, I'd say you, Cath, Alge, Sheral, and everyone else who left - forgot that too. And I don't say it maliciously, I say it in the way you mean it. I think everyone forgets it from time to time, but you know some people try and work out what it was that got hurt/misunderstood/miscommunicated. They give some the benefit of the doubt and go "wait that can't be what he REALLY means...maybe something is off". Or just like in Real life, they don't even try - they just storm off and never talk to you again. Totally agree. And it applies to Everyone - not just those who are "left" I for one would be pleased as punch for EVERY ONE of them to come back - let things get worked out - let miscommunications get understood. But that takes patience, understanding, empathy and time. Some of which some of us may not be wiling to give *shrugs* Ignore those, and grow with the ones who are willing . I mean Tant is saying "look shit got misconstrued" basically. And I think it really is true - and I think its pretty true in almost all threads I read. I get passion I get moved and I get "heated" in the forum. But if I start getting really "bothered" by what other are saying, I also realize that you know what - they probably aren't "getting" what I'm trying to say the way I'm saying it. And in the end, they really don't know me well enough - and I need to try harder. But at the end of the day I don't ALLOW myself to lose sleep over things people say who don't really know *me* People come into my office every day, their lives in ruin with pills and disorders - because they give too much power and credit to people who shouldn't really effect them at all. People who dont know them, don't understand what they do - and yet these pepole who have no clue who the client realy is- somehow manage to destroy the client. That's not right - but its no more the fault of the person who doeesn't know them, than it is their own fault for allowing that opinion to have any power over them. It just doesn't need to be that way. Frith-Rae QFT
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Post by FrithRae on Jul 20, 2005 15:34:44 GMT
correct usage of new acronyme (yea spelled wrong bite me) by Arse! 10 points! (and thanks, I'm glad someone is understanding my thought process behind that...lol) Frith-Rae
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Nescio
Unemployed
Cave Canem
Posts: 1,384
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Post by Nescio on Jul 20, 2005 17:05:56 GMT
Frith, I'm not talking about comments like "your momma" this and "your momma" that. That's easy to shrug off, for me.
I'm talking about becoming disappointed and sad for numerous reasons. It's not as simple as you are trying to make it. And even if it had been as simple, honestly - telling people to get a grip might feel very temptative for you as you (hopefully) cannot do that in your real life, but there's a reason why you shouldn't do that towards your patients and a reason why you also shouldn't be saying things like that here. People take offence.
Me personally I became disappointed and sad when I was (often deliberately) misunderstood and heckled, had opinions that never were mine branded upon me by some and flamed to pieces trying to defend myself. Sorry, I don't consider that fun. No, it didn't make my reconsider my opinions our doubt myself, but it did make my view of the world and people in general a bit more black.
So I left. My world is black enough as it is, I'm trying to make it more bright and not the opposite.
As for AoTktl hinting at me trying to gag americans in another thread - please go drown yourself.
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Post by arseovrteakettl on Jul 20, 2005 17:22:57 GMT
Frith, I'm not talking about comments like "your momma" this and "your momma" that. That's easy to shrug off, for me. I'm talking about becoming disappointed and sad for numerous reasons. It's not as simple as you are trying to make it. And even if it had been as simple, honestly - telling people to get a grip might feel very temptative for you as you (hopefully) cannot do that in your real life, but there's a reason why you shouldn't do that towards your patients and a reason why you also shouldn't be saying things like that here. People take offence. Me personally I became disappointed and sad when I was (often deliberately) misunderstood and heckled, had opinions that never were mine branded upon me by some and flamed to pieces trying to defend myself. Sorry, I don't consider that fun. No, it didn't make my reconsider my opinions our doubt myself, but it did make my view of the world and people in general a bit more black. So I left. My world is black enough as it is, I'm trying to make it more bright and not the opposite. As for AoTktl hinting at me trying to gag americans in another thread - please go drown yourself. Jeez Louise. You are doing just what you say others have done to you! Perhaps now you can understand why it happens in the first place! This is what Nescio said in this thread: This is what I said in another thread I interpretted Nescio's quote as seeing the us/them division between Americvans and Europeans not feeling they could discuss things with members of a nation of people who voted GW Bush into office. My point there was that it seems as though many are contributing to the us/them thing that Algenon was mentioning, and I am still not sure who he is attributing it to, or indeed if anyone is aware of the contribution they each themselves are making to it. But it seems like you did this to me, Nescio: So, you would like me to go drown myself. Very nice. Thanks.
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Nescio
Unemployed
Cave Canem
Posts: 1,384
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Post by Nescio on Jul 20, 2005 17:55:58 GMT
I see no connection between my quote and yours there arse. It has nothing to do with being able to talk freely. Being able to talk freely is, and always will be from my behalf - a fundamental, necessary ground to stand on. I will not argue for it, for I consider it natural. You formulated yourself very clumsily, about an issue you had misunderstood. If you hearby say that you do not think I'm trying to gag americans then naturally don't go drown yourself just yet. Wait untill I tell you some other time (and "go drown yourself" is something I put in the category "yo momma")
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Post by arseovrteakettl on Jul 20, 2005 18:41:18 GMT
Why do I even warrant a yo MaMa? Why is wishing someone else to die the same as Yo MaMa?
Why is it clumsiness for me to interpret what you said the way I did? Is there really no connection? I certainly saw a connection. If I interpret what you said the way I did, am I really wrong? If you call me clumsy, is that helping our communication at all, or just escalating a fight that I have no idea why we are having?
Why do you need to dig me here, Nescio? Why are you fighting with me?
What have I ever done to you?
You've hurt my feelings here. Doesn't it matter that there are human beings reading these words?
Afterall, I thought that kind of was sort your point: that people got hurt here. And yet you hurt me.
What is the deal?
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Post by romainicus on Jul 21, 2005 5:41:12 GMT
bla bla bla bla bla
blil bli bli bli bli bli
blu blu blu blu blu
ho yesterday I have eat a green apple hummm miam miam!!!!
I would like to say something important, I'm gonna eat another one today, scary is not it!!!
Ho hugs to all european, australians, japenese, swazilanders, braziliano argentina's girl!
Yep some words here have hurt us, and specialy UK ppl!!! I'm wondering what could have been your posotion if on september 11th, I was coming to you saying !!!! HAAAAAAAA you see we french know how to handdle terrorism, we deal with musulman since the 60's come and get a lesson!!
would youcome and say all the stuff you are writting since 2 weeks???
hooo or maybe I'm gonna eat a red apple
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Post by arseovrteakettl on Jul 21, 2005 12:26:06 GMT
I'm wondering what could have been your posotion if on september 11th, I was coming to you saying !!!! HAAAAAAAA you see we french know how to handdle terrorism, we deal with musulman since the 60's come and get a lesson!! would youcome and say all the stuff you are writting since 2 weeks??? hooo or maybe I'm gonna eat a red apple who is the "you" that you are addressing here Romain?
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Post by FrithRae on Jul 21, 2005 17:53:59 GMT
due to the nature of the degeneration of attacks on people, and concern pointed out in the SO that it needed to be moved....this thread has been moved to PVP. Nescio - telling Arse to drown herself was most assuredly out of line. I am saying that as a Mod, with the backing of other Mods who felt it was going to far. "Go fuck yourself" would not have implied the idea that she should die simply because of a disagreement you two have. As Frith - It did not come across as "Yo Mamma" and seems to negate your entire logical and rational conversation you're trying to have. At least, that I thought you were trying to have. ANd yes, actually I tell my patients to "get a grip" every day - I just do it in a therapeutic manner. None of you are my patients, - you don't pay me to be therapeutic. Excuse me if I beleive eroneously that your ego's don't need to be catered to by "being gentle". If you are honestly offended and insulted by what is written here to the point that it effects your personal life - then yes, I'd tell anyone - this is not the place for them. But if they were a friend who was willing to listen and think about themselves, I'd probe with them why the opinoins of a bunch of nobodies (and I'm one of those nobodies) effects them so much. Frith
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tonic
Master Baitor
RR Special Correspondent
Ready for the action now, danger boy?
Posts: 1,759
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Post by tonic on Jul 21, 2005 18:17:42 GMT
frith said: no no dont stop ...i like it rough
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Post by akuma on Jul 21, 2005 18:54:57 GMT
Bah.... I think we all just need to take a big gulp of Doctor Akuma's get over it elixir. If that don't work then help yerself to a swallow of Doctor Akuma's White root medicine...carefull there a little goes a long way.
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Post by tired on Jul 22, 2005 6:12:23 GMT
So you decide to move the post even after the original poster explained what they meant in plain English and the person it was said about had already responded? And you had a little mothers meeting and decided that one persons way of phrasing something is unacceptable and warrants some kind of parent/child scolding? Get over yourself.
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Post by akuma on Jul 22, 2005 7:51:53 GMT
So you decide to move the post even after the original poster explained what they meant in plain English and the person it was said about had already responded? And you had a little mothers meeting and decided that one persons way of phrasing something is unacceptable and warrants some kind of parent/child scolding? Get over yourself. And I guess you just gave us another example of why you should not ever run a board. I think it must really piss you off to no end that the board just did not fold up and wither. I think you are the one who needs to get over himself.
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