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Post by paladin on Jul 14, 2005 18:36:55 GMT
First I would like to apologize to Tant for Hijacking his thread. Tant if you ask me to I will leave the thread and or delete any post made by myself that anyone finds offensive.
Ok Dark, I never smited you, I have always liked you, just like you said above, why smite someone for stating their opinion?
The wake up call I was referring to was not one of bombs and terror, it was one of words and feelings for your fellow forum members.
Myself and others have delt with alot of American bashing in a time of need, and no matter what was said at the time, some people here just didn't get it. Didn't see how their words could have hurt us. The wake up call was me throwing your tactics in your face to prove a point.
I know it was tasteless but the timing was perfect, some people won't learn until shit happens to them, well shit has happened so maybe now you will learn.
Here is just one of the post where I apologized to Tant and asked the OP if he wanted me to stop, remove, or delete my post there.
There are a different set of rules for each forum, and like someone stated above, its like comparing apples to oranges.
One person stalks a person to attack that person, another person Hijacks a thread to attack a few peoples ideas.
I know that point will be lost to a few, but.........anyway, just wanted to say that I'm moving along, this thread has already gotten more attention then it deserved.
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Post by arseovrteakettl on Jul 14, 2005 18:38:40 GMT
There's two sides of us and them, and it seems that your post is contributing to the increase in polarity, rather than decreasing it, Algenon.
Let's all look in the mirror when we point the finger; sometimes what we accuse other people of doing, we are also doing ourselves.
I always avoided those discussions anyway. Living in London for 3 years was enough to convince me that I could not win the "Americans" argument : \
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Post by tantalyr on Jul 14, 2005 18:53:14 GMT
tired/Algenon wrote: I'm guessing that shot was aimed in my direction, so I'll respond. In another thread I asked a series of questions to you, Algenon, giving what I believed to be analogous hypotheticals in an effort to get you to see how statements can provoke emotional responses. You simply replied that my analogies were crap, and never bothered to respond to the questions. If that's a "monster defense" to you, then we are waaaaay off the same wavelength. We're not on the same page. We're not even in the same library. I have to say, Alg, though I certainly admire you for having the gumption and time to set up this board in this first instance, it never occurred to me until last fall how easily your personal feelings are bruised. First came that perfectly idiotic (in my view) tete-a-tete with Akuma over why you played certain MMORPG's. Talk about a tempest in a teapot! Do you honestly think anyone really gives a flying fuck WHY you play some game? Much less paid any attention at all to that pissing contest? And then came your tete-a-tete with me . . . . And that's where I think you really took on your wounded duck attitude. While I can certainly root through and dig up the precise thread, I believe I'm pretty accurate in stating that the morning after the presidential election--an election that had (surprise!) generated much debate on this board--you posted some chart that was supposed to show that people in Red States (those that went for Bush) had decidely lower average IQ's than residents of Blue States. And I called you on the carpet over your gratuitous bashing of Americans who voted for Bush. And your response was to essentially moan that I (and others) were just too sensitive and you only meant it as a joke. Ever since you've absolutely refused to recognize that bashing begets bashing. Judging from your responses (or lack of them) in my "monstrous defense" thread, it's readily apparent that you either (a) don't at all recognize the import of your words, or (b) don't give a shit. Either way (or both), it's more than a bit hypocritical of you to stamp off in a huff when you get smacked for doing precisely the same thing you criticize me for.
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Post by Pharcellus on Jul 14, 2005 18:59:38 GMT
First off, I'm not intending to bash you with this post, but to get you to understand how the situation looks from a relative outsider. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong here, but didn't you CREATE these forums? Wasn't it you who set the tone, rules, and expectations for all participants? Isn't it true that, without you, these forums wouldn't even exist?? If I am not wrong, then whom do you think bears the most responsibility for them turning out to be something completely different than what was intended in their creation? Surely not the posters... Yes, you WILL piss people off when you exercise your Authority, but as long as you do it Responsibly, you'll have a clear conscience, and likely even the asshats whom you exercised said authority upon will come to understand, whether they agree or not. They were YOUR forums. Your rule was law. If the enforcement of your law was fair and even-handed, then you would alienate the fewest of the forum participants, and those that you DID alienate probably wouldn't need to be here anyway. Hell, even I may be one of those types. Who knows? I'd say that the only reason you could be considered a "crap admin" was because you wimped out and ran away screaming like a little girl who'd just had a rotting animal corpse shoved into her face by the local brat, instead of taking responsibility for your own creation. *shrug* But that is your choice. You say that no one broke the rules, per se, but yet the results were apparently so bad that you felt you had to leave rather than fix the rules to prevent it from happening in the future. You also took on one of the hardest kinds of forums to administer, a free-for-all FlameWar Board. "Say whatever you want, and mean it all you want; just don't cry when you get your head handed to you". People have LOTS of petty prejudices and pet peeves which they are willing to spend hours railing on and relentlessly slamming others who don't share their views, right OR (mostly) wrong. *shrug* human nature. Flame War boards are specifically intended to let people air their "dirty (nasty?) laundry" in a sometimes futile attempt to have someone else "wash" it for them. In a rather cathartic way, they are therapeutic. I enjoyed participating in ByteBrothers and the WWIVNet FlameWar message bases (old BBS warboards). Probably one of the reasons that I am the way I am now; cynical, twisted, and abrasive as John Wayne Buttwipe. Still doesn't change the fact that I am one of the most courteous and friendly people you are likely to meet on the street in Real Life (tm). Maybe I am that way in RL because I get out all my angst and woe here. Anyway, thanks for starting them. If they survive, hopefully newer, more experienced management will help them prosper and grow. Still hope you stick around to see how the story ends up.
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Post by FrithRae on Jul 14, 2005 19:19:25 GMT
I'm just goign to comment on my roll as I mod as I *saw* it and leave it...I fail to see how anything else will help anything . *I* personally have had a large amount of experience on "Rant/flame/anytyhing goes" forums - and on those forums the general attitude is "dont start none if you dont want none. If you can't handle it - leave - dont let the door hit you on the way out" It is also "We can police ourselves, if we dont like something we'll make it known " And in fact as brought up in another thread, you guys said several moons ago that you'd rather police yourselves to stay "adult" about things than have to have mods come in and edit threads and posts. Well I took you guys to mean that - and thusly when Paladin posted his "off color" post in the "Prayers" thread I left it. Thinking you guys can be adults and handle it how you want, and if OP pops a pm to me to move it or complains backstage I'd go from there. Also keeping in mind that yes - there were THREE other mods at the time (Alge, Sheral, and Shaw) who could have at any time - as has already been pointed out - deleted and or moved the post. Personally I thought it woefully inapproproiate no matter the point Pally was trying to make. I understood his point behind dong it, but I greatly disagreed with the placement of it. (See Sheral - just like Cath...). But that was me PERSONALLY. I can't as a mod act on my *OWN PERSONAL* feelings about a thread. I mean I think we'd all agree on THAT rule . If I had maybe known that Sheral and Alge would have reacted for sure the way they did I would have done something. If I had known that instead of acting like mods themselves and moving the hijack as they saw fit, but instead go toe to toe about it - I would have done something. Meh hindsight's 20/20. Silly me thought everyone would be more adult about it. The rules of the board were unclear (IMO) in this regard as to a mods duties when someone posts offtopic, or posts something blantently designed to get a reaction off of others and off topic at the same time. I intend to see to it that never again will the rules be iffy in this regard. Call it one of those personal missions now You guys are making it known now exactly what you want mod duties to include and NOT include and how much responsiblity will fall on YOU the member, vs. US the mods. Because in the end, it is also true that the thread starter did not (to my knowledge) ask that the post be removed. And I did not feel comfortable, as mod of a RANT board (which does have certain given's in my expereince), to just delete the post outright and send a PM to Pally. Just an explanation, not an excuse. But clarification is obvoiusly needed. Mistakes were made - we can learn from them and move on. Or we can sit here bitching about it to each other and never get anywhere. I for one am going to try and learn, make my position as a mod clear (for what it IS and is NOT), and move on. Sheral and Alge I hope you both return, in whichever capacity you desire. But anyone who is pointing blame at any one group or persons and deny that this blame goes EQUALLY all around - members and mods - of ALL levels - is being silly. Frith-Rae
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Post by Pharcellus on Jul 14, 2005 19:43:27 GMT
Sorry, but I can't buy that psychobabble. "The Blame goes equally all around". Next, we'll be asked to hold hands and sing cumbaya. Group hugs for all! :roll: You'll have to pardon me if I take NO responsibility for what happened. With NO authority comes NO responsibility. The responsible people are wearing the Sheriff's Stars. Why? Because they HAVE the authority. Now, I take full responsibility for what I post here, but only insofar as responses to it are concerned and as long as I have the authority to post/edit/delete it at my whim. If I can't take the heat, I will get out of the kitchen. I suggest others share the same level of responsibility, and they will find themselves much happier people in the long run.
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tonic
Master Baitor
RR Special Correspondent
Ready for the action now, danger boy?
Posts: 1,759
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Post by tonic on Jul 14, 2005 19:53:30 GMT
shyt! missed it! Well im lazy so add some of tants speech and all of Pharcellus please top it off with arses and anything nali might say in the future i totally agree with. Thats my offical response... Oh i do want to add: what type of cheese to you like with your Whine alg? ...i love that your watching....*pant pant*
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Post by tired on Jul 14, 2005 21:56:29 GMT
In another thread I asked a series of questions to you, Algenon, giving what I believed to be analogous hypotheticals in an effort to get you to see how statements can provoke emotional responses. You simply replied that my analogies were crap, and never bothered to respond to the questions. If that's a "monster defense" to you, then we are waaaaay off the same wavelength. We're not on the same page. We're not even in the same library. I have to say, Alg, though I certainly admire you for having the gumption and time to set up this board in this first instance, it never occurred to me until last fall how easily your personal feelings are bruised. First came that perfectly idiotic (in my view) tete-a-tete with Akuma over why you played certain MMORPG's. Talk about a tempest in a teapot! Do you honestly think anyone really gives a flying fuck WHY you play some game? Much less paid any attention at all to that pissing contest? And then came your tete-a-tete with me . . . . And that's where I think you really took on your wounded duck attitude. While I can certainly root through and dig up the precise thread, I believe I'm pretty accurate in stating that the morning after the presidential election--an election that had (surprise!) generated much debate on this board--you posted some chart that was supposed to show that people in Red States (those that went for Bush) had decidely lower average IQ's than residents of Blue States. And I called you on the carpet over your gratuitous bashing of Americans who voted for Bush. And your response was to essentially moan that I (and others) were just too sensitive and you only meant it as a joke. Ever since you've absolutely refused to recognize that bashing begets bashing. Judging from your responses (or lack of them) in my "monstrous defense" thread, it's readily apparent that you either (a) don't at all recognize the import of your words, or (b) don't give a shit. Either way (or both), it's more than a bit hypocritical of you to stamp off in a huff when you get smacked for doing precisely the same thing you criticize me for. I will take this point by point, if I may. You started a thread asking people to "stop the goddamn personal bashing". I called you on the fact you'd told someone to fuck off, personally, fuelling the fire in a massive way, even though they (and others) had repeatedly tried to let you know you had misconsrued their meaning, and you defended yourself. You could've just said "yeah, I misunderstood, and in hindsight I wouldnt have made the personal attack", but no, you defended your position. So its ok to tell people to "fuck off" but you don't want people to land personal comments. Hmm k. You missed my point - the analogies were pointless because you were defending your right to make a personal attack after someoone said something general - exactly what you said people shouldn't do. On Akuma, he started on me and I defended myself, on several occasions. I don't care who reads the aftermath, and what they think of it - some supposedly wise head here said if you don't want to read a thread, don't read. Well, der? Hello? I was simply defending myself - Akuma lied - repeatedly - about me, and I set the record straight. I don't care who reads it, but my god I will set the record straight if I am misquoted. I'm sure you would do the same. And don't ask me to take it to tells - he soon backs off as he is in the wrong. Dont credit yourself for me becoming a wounded duck - you're off the mark. That was a gradual thing. The chart I posted was comedic - you missed that. I pointed it out afterwards, ad infinitum, but no, you couldn't accept that. You got your panties in a bunch about it, screaming and pissing (as you do) and rilling the masses, as you like to do most of all. And yes, I thought you were pathetic - take the piss out of us and we'll take it, all day long - one joke about you and you piss your pants. Pathetic. It would be OK if you could take it even after we pointed out it was a joke but no, the offensive continues. To adlib your closing statement, Judging from your responses it's readily apparent that you can't take a joke, can't admit when you're wrong, can't turn the other cheek and cant ignore a post you dont want to read. I didn't stamp off in a huff - here I am. I have no responsibilities now, so i'll stand toe to toe with you all day long - bring it. The day you admit you misconstrued a comment (even after THE ACTUAL POSTER tells you you did) and take back something you said is the day you take the first step towards redemption. I expect hell will freeze over first.
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Post by tantalyr on Jul 14, 2005 22:04:15 GMT
tired/Algernon wrote:
Ok then, you're mother is a whore that ugly Prince Charlie fucked and hence your existence.
Oh wait, just joking . . . .
Yup, I'm just slapping my knee. Aren't you?
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Post by tired on Jul 14, 2005 22:07:54 GMT
You say that no one broke the rules, per se, but yet the results were apparently so bad that you felt you had to leave rather than fix the rules to prevent it from happening in the future. You also took on one of the hardest kinds of forums to administer, a free-for-all FlameWar Board. "Say whatever you want, and mean it all you want; just don't cry when you get your head handed to you". People have LOTS of petty prejudices and pet peeves which they are willing to spend hours railing on and relentlessly slamming others who don't share their views, right OR (mostly) wrong. *shrug* human nature. Flame War boards are specifically intended to let people air their "dirty (nasty?) laundry" in a sometimes futile attempt to have someone else "wash" it for them. In a rather cathartic way, they are therapeutic. I enjoyed participating in ByteBrothers and the WWIVNet FlameWar message bases (old BBS warboards). Probably one of the reasons that I am the way I am now; cynical, twisted, and abrasive as John Wayne Buttwipe. Still doesn't change the fact that I am one of the most courteous and friendly people you are likely to meet on the street in Real Life (tm). Maybe I am that way in RL because I get out all my angst and woe here. Anyway, thanks for starting them. If they survive, hopefully newer, more experienced management will help them prosper and grow. Still hope you stick around to see how the story ends up. The rules were fine. I just found out some things about some of the remaining posters here that made me feel sick, and I didn't want to have anything to do with them anymore. That is nothing to do with the rules - its a personal decision by me that I don't want to read racist hate comments by people. The boards live on, so whats the problem? I think I explained this above. More rules may have shielded me from the real people here, and I wouldn't of wanted that - I want to see people for what they are for, and I did. And I don't like it. I will hang around. I will not go to the sections set aside for race hatred, cultural rape and jingoistic claptrap but I will read up on peoples views on games etc. If I want to beat up on a racist, I will just do that at the Anti Nazi demo here - better to shout abuse at a real target than hide behind a message board.
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Post by tired on Jul 14, 2005 22:09:46 GMT
tired/Algernon wrote: Ok then, you're mother is a whore that ugly Prince Charlie fucked and hence your existence. Oh wait, just joking . . . . Yup, I'm just slapping my knee. Aren't you? Oh, ok. Nice response. So the fact YOU didn't find it funny means it is some heneous crime? Get over yourself.
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Post by tired on Jul 14, 2005 22:15:44 GMT
If I had maybe known that Sheral and Alge would have reacted for sure the way they did I would have done something. If I had known that instead of acting like mods themselves and moving the hijack as they saw fit, but instead go toe to toe about it - I would have done something. You still don't get it? Unbelievable. I've been in constant contact with Pal since this event via email. I'd consider him a friend. Please get it. Please? It wasn't his comment that made any impact on me at all. It was the nasty racism by some and the complete inability to be rational by others that made me think I don't want to associate with some of you people, so now I can be here and pick and choose what I read, instead of having to read and judge it all.
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Post by tired on Jul 14, 2005 22:17:29 GMT
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tonic
Master Baitor
RR Special Correspondent
Ready for the action now, danger boy?
Posts: 1,759
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Post by tonic on Jul 14, 2005 22:24:59 GMT
grapes outa season in the uk my petal
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Post by akuma on Jul 14, 2005 22:25:38 GMT
Hey Tired would you mind pointing out the racist hate comments that so offended, I know that one thread stated to get fairly nasty but I can only recall a single post that I found offensive. And why the fuck didn't you just delete the thread or post and warn or ban the poster?
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