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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 21:17:22 GMT
The original SWG was more free like that imo. You gained certain types of XP that contributed towards skills. When you "leveled" that skill you could buy the next skill in the chain or a different chain. If you changed your mind and wanted to go melee instead of Carbine, or Rifle instead of Merchant, or craft Weapons instead of Buildings, you could simply by buying it (up to your 250 point maximum) or by dropping existing stuff and buying the new one. Was a really great system. Far more flexible than most I've ever played.
With one character I maxed out as a Bounty Hunter, then switched to Carbine, became a Sniper for a while, tried my hand as a Bartender, Entertainer, and then even an Architect.
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xaeris
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Post by xaeris on Feb 4, 2013 22:12:37 GMT
Because they got rid of the Stats in Skyrim, it is different.
You CAN go through the game as a Heavy Plate Armor Melee and then, say, at Level 20 or 30 go switch to a Bow and Light Armor and Sneak everywhere you go.
All you gotta do, is practice a little first in places you've already been. But once you get the skills caught up, you can do it reasonably well assuming you found a decent weapon and some decent armor.
Especially since most people dump most of their talents into crafts anyways; doesn't matter whether you use a 2h weapon, 1h weapon, bow, or what-not if your points are in Alchemy, Enchanting, and Smithing lol. Your character will be just as good at either of those styles.
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Post by FrithRae on Feb 5, 2013 20:41:27 GMT
Yes Xar, having spent over 80 hours so far in Skryim I'm aware of their system..
But there are limitations and negatives if you switch your gameplay mechanic halfway through. YES yo can do it; but there are limitations (I.e. those previous 20 levels of points you spent, if you spent them in 2h and heavy and switched to bow and light...those 20 points you spent are mostly "wasted" if you never go back to that fighting style and you can't get them back to put elsewhere..)
IT IS a small limitation; but it is not the "free for all" system - in that at higher levels the leveling slows down, and while there's no technically "level cap", hit 50 and things slow EXTREMELY down - so YEs, there is a limitation and punishment for switching your fighting style halfway through....
And I would argue that no, its not all players dump into the three crafting. I didn't. I see no point in dumping in alchemy *shrugs* I don't need to max it to "beat" anythning easily and to me its just a time consumer making potions I never use anyway (outside of the potions of +to enchant and +to blacksmith..lol).
So I say again...Elder Scrolls has never been free-range like that. Not in the same way as Secret World, or a TRUE no class/skill points only/no limitations but time you invest...system.
So why anyone expects the MMORPG to be that way I don't know. And since they've already said "yes there are set classes" we've already been given at least one limitation.
Now it just remains to be seen how much REAL freedom we'll have in those classes, or wether it wll be the old-hat-talent tree system just in a different label, trying to be passed off as something new...
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xaeris
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Post by xaeris on Feb 5, 2013 21:23:01 GMT
So, have you actually gotten higher levels, say 60+? 80 hours... well. It takes a bit more than 80 hours to get that high unless you're exploiting the game (using Shadowmere as target practice for example). I've put 210 hours into the game and my character is about 60.
There are only two things levelups mean:
1). You get 10 points to put into either Fatigue, Health, or Mana. These matter very little in the end-run; with the right gear, you will never run out of mana, with the ridiculously powerful armor you can ultimately make, your health won't matter much (especially when you've got a potentially endless supply of potions to restore it with), and the Fatigue benefits everybody equally.
2). You get 1 talent point. Once you take everything you need from Smithing, Alchemy, and Enchanting, the rest of the points are Optional -- the recommendations are to put some points into Sneak (since that benefits nearly everyone too) and spread your remaining talents out amongst things.
Skills gained are not "wasted" by any means -- there is no limit to what skills you are allowed to raise to what levels. In fact, many players have increased every single skill in the game to 100 without penalties.
Skills still gain skill at the same rate, regardless if you are Level 1 or Level 70+. Your skills do not "slow down" until the skill itself gets high level, but then ALL skills do this anyways.
So... again, the whole "switching" aspect...
You play to Level 40 as a Heavy Armor, 2-Handed user.
Then you switch to Light Armor, Sneak/Bow.
The ONLY thing you might run into, is whether or not you placed any talents in Heavy Armor. This is why most will usually pick 1 type of armor and stick with it. Usually Light Armor, because it is easy to hit the armor cap with Dragonscale Armor that has been improved by ridiculously powerful Smithing Gear and Smithing Potions. Therefore, Dragonbone armor isn't even necessary whatsoever.
And then the "Levelup Choice" of Health/Mana/Fatigue. I don't know about other players, but the easiest way to do this is to do 2 Fatigue to 1 Health and 1 Mana. This will get you plenty of Health and Mana, while giving you a nice carry capacity and lots of fatigue to do whatever it is you need to do.
With this sort of character "build", you can do anything, and everything once all of your skills are leveled... with.... yes.... NO PENALTIES WHATSOEVER.
And you'll have actual talent points left over to distribute.... wherever you want.
EDIT:
Actually, the game REWARDS you for switching skills later-game:
Skills are actually FASTER and EASIER to level for several reasons:
Melee Skills, you have access to higher-tier weapons (leveling 2-H skill starting from 15 with a Glass Sword gives you a skill level every other swing).
Armor Skills, you have so much health and other skills that you can throw on a suit of Dragonscale/Dragonbone and let 5+ bandits pound at you for hours to raise an armor skill and be in no danger whatsoever.
Magic Skills, you have access to items that reduce magic costs which means you can cast more without running out of mana, which makes magic skills easier to level.
So... the game makes it.....Easier.... to turn over a new leaf later in the game. The only thing you're missing is talents, and most talents are not that important, there's only a few that are really helpful (improved double-casting for destruction for example). But these are usually early in the tree, needing only a couple talents to unlock.
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Post by FrithRae on Feb 6, 2013 22:00:12 GMT
One - I'm confused as to why it matters wether I'm over level 60 or not? I've read thread after thread after thread that states leveling (not the points, but the distance between levels I suppose) does slow down after 50; so the 10 points you got between 40-50..takes longer to get those between 50-60. Me..I'm level...39. And all the rest of that told me is that yes..as a single player game - its a bit broken how the stats work and how easy it is to game the system. IMO, those things that don't matter SHOULD matter..but its a single player game so I don't care. I just like runnign aroudn and having fun . None of what you said to me has any relevance on ESO..and the point of this thread. None of that indicates to me that ESO woudl be doing anything LIKE Skyrim's point system. Its broken and can be easily gamed...NOT what you want in an MMORPG system. And as I said, clearly ESO isn't doing what Skyrim did. Because they have set classes. So..I guess I'm missing the point of your repeated "you can do anything in skyrim!". Ok..you can..and?
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xaeris
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Post by xaeris on Feb 7, 2013 1:40:29 GMT
I suppose the thread derailed when peeps kept saying "Skyrim was restrictive too!" and I was pointing out that, no... there is very little noticeable restriction whatsoever."
Oh well.
Either way...
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Post by FrithRae on Feb 7, 2013 7:17:17 GMT
Well I still see SKyrim has having restruictions...if you don't game the stat system.
The other argument being, why use the example of an essentially broken/cheatable system as a good example of how the MMORPG should be modeled? LOL.
I mean Ilove Skyrim, I have a blast and I love that I can stack things in my favor...but I still acknolwege its crazy easy to beat the system and OP yourself...
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xaeris
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Post by xaeris on Feb 7, 2013 12:27:49 GMT
Well I still see SKyrim has having restruictions...if you don't game the stat system. The other argument being, why use the example of an essentially broken/cheatable system as a good example of how the MMORPG should be modeled? LOL. I mean Ilove Skyrim, I have a blast and I love that I can stack things in my favor...but I still acknolwege its crazy easy to beat the system and OP yourself... I think it got lost somewhere in the conversation, But... I was saying why the MMORPG _shouldn't_ use the systems found in previous ES games. And I was using the fact it is possible to become a virtual god in a be-everything and do-anything environment.
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Post by FrithRae on Feb 7, 2013 22:43:34 GMT
Its possible only if the system doesn't have limits.
Again, using Secret World, (not saying its the end all be all but its the closest system to this right now in a game I actively play so I can talk about intelligently lol) - you can master every weapon and every ability with every weapon; but the power of that is limited by your gear. Gear has a limit. When you reach that limit, you get no more powerful.
So you can be and do everything in that environment; but you will never become a god - at least not against the other players and the top tier PVE content - because everything is attuned to that 'top gear' level there. So regardless that you can switch from a healer to a tank between fights; you are still not a god.
The God part comes when there are no limits to the skills - such as in Skyrim (until you get I guess 100 in everything) but the mobs don't all automaticaclly tier upwards as you do; nor do they tier upwards in response to your oober-enchants and such. Thereby..yes...letting you become a God.
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xaeris
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Post by xaeris on Feb 8, 2013 0:43:19 GMT
Slightly Off-Topic: You can respec your talents in Skyrim once you get to the end of Dragonborn's Main Quest. So the _only_ restriction in Skyrim now, that stops you from 'turning over a new leaf' is the 10 points you put into Health, Mana, or Stamina each levelup.
But anyways, back on topic...
RE:Frith's Latest: Hmmm, limiting by gear, eh? I suppose that's possible and somewhat logical/sensible to do.
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Post by FrithRae on Feb 8, 2013 20:01:56 GMT
Its more than possible, its actually happening. =D
Honestly, I ddin't think Funcom could pull off 550 abilities somehow all "balanced" around anyone picking anything and NOT either have "one right answer anyway" or not have oober-gods at the end.
But with tons and tons of SW peopole having filled their skill wheel (i.e. gotten every ability for every weapon), its actually doable and was done..pretty well.
Not to say that some builds (for tank, dps, heal, hybrid, whatever) don't come out on top - absolutely they do (for those min maxers). And that doesnt mean there aren't some abilities that are pretty repetitive of each other (there are); nor does it mean there aren't skills that seem rather useless ( there are).
But its not just ever "one right answer" and even if you do't want to run with the "absolutely max build" doesn't mean you're running gimped or as a liability to your group if you choose something not so cookie cutter. The way they build their abilities, and how they are dependent on procs and state of effects (the type of ability and wether they stun/apply an aoe, impair, whatever effects the usefuless of the abilities you put together), aswell as the fact that abilitie syou buy with 75 points are not necessarily always better than the skill you got early on at 10 points (they get more situation specific) - allows people to make multiple awesome builds with whatever types of weapons they want that are perfectly fine at dealing with whatever a person wants to do - even if they don't use the "top three aboslutely max dps for raiding" build or something.
What limits the max power of those abilities is the gear and how you stack your stats. Stats are only available in gear (to hit, to crit power, to power, to crit rating, to heal, to defense, to block, magic defense, physicacl defense - this game has a crapton of different stats lol) and the top tier of gear right now being "10.5". Its totally possible to gear yourself out in all 10.5, get your several sets of gear weighted with whatever stats your build needs (i.e if you run a tanking build and a solo survival dps build you may need two sets of stats for those), and at that power level - everyone else fully decked out in 10.5 is equally as strong as you are.
I'm a bit shocked they managed to pull all this out so well and have it all work - but it DOES! HA! And noone is super-oober more than anyone else at the end gear levels (other than yes, if you built the best DPS build for your raid and someoen else didn't - you will obviously dps more than them..) but its not in any case wehre anyone is god like or that they can game the system somehow.
As to Skyrim - ...I had no idea you could respec your talents at the end of the main quest...huh!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 21:24:39 GMT
I think he means in the Dragonborn DLC.
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xaeris
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Post by xaeris on Feb 9, 2013 1:11:37 GMT
I think he means in the Dragonborn DLC. Yes, I did: But I can understand if it is easy to miss things when speed-reading. Catch myself doing it now and then.
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Post by FrithRae on Feb 13, 2013 6:48:33 GMT
ahh see I saw "Dragonborn main quest" but thought you meant..the main quest of Skyrim of your character..the Dragonborn...LOL.
But gotit...
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Post by woooooooo on Oct 1, 2013 17:37:27 GMT
I just read that its going to be XB1 and PS4 only. W T F
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