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Post by Pharcellus on Oct 29, 2006 17:16:52 GMT
I hereby invoke Godwin's Law. (watches the thread implode) Wheee! Kewl! Though Tantalyr probably does go a bit far in his statements (not like that's against the rules here anyway, but), the fact remains that you EARNED the moniker, Ophelea. Not the "War Criminal Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf" one, but the cartoon that was "Baghdad Bob". Compare: "I triple guarantee you, there are no American soldiers in Baghdad." and (regarding the T6 nerf uproar): "Changes were not communicated because none have been made. What you see is what has always been intended. That being the case, what was there to say?" Can't you see the parallel? I can. I doubt that I am the only one. You see, you don't have to be a baby-murdering, beheading, camel-fucking sand-ape to lie and spin with the "best", but you can bet your boots that if you make a shot at the crown, you'll stand a good chance at having someone award it to you ... in spades. I always wondered what it was that made David like you over some real with REAL CM experience, and I realized not too long after your installation that it was because you did him proud with your ability to lie and spin doctor. That makes you a great "PR" person, you think? Not in my book. Not in most other peoples' books, either. You see, people HATE lying; people HATE both the truth and themselves being spun. However, there's no end of people who still think that the job of "PR Dweeb" is to make the owners, management, and the company itself "look good", no matter what the cost to integrity. It does a disservice to the small minority of folks who DO a good job as PR manager; without lying, without spin. At the end of the day, I'm here to tell you (in case someone else hasn't already), that's NOT what the job is all about. You've been called on the carpet over your statements in the HZ forums several times; even though I haven't actively participated in them since December of last year, I still avidly read them (luckily for you; I don't think you'd have liked what I would have had to say about your "job" or how poorly you performed it while you were there otherwise). Smeglor and Amon don't have to set the bar for us to judge your job performance; we're quite capable of telling fact from fiction from bald-faced dissembly. I mean, it would be one thing if you were just ignorant of the facts, but many times, these were facts that you would have had to be DEAD not to know. It's one thing that makes me stay FAR away from GI.net, and warn other people away from it as well. I mean, if it is run ANYTHING like how you peformed as HZ CM, I expect that it's probably about the most useless waste of bits on the 'Net (besides RR; I know, I know). "I was just doing the job I was paid to do!". Being paid to lie.. gotta admit that it ranks pretty low on my list of "most desirable jobs". You lose credibility, respect, and a whole slew of other virutes for a buck. Kinda follows that your journalistic integrity takes a big hit, too, no doubt? Look, like I said about Peaches... you and her may be the most wonderful people in the world; I'd love nothing better than finding out someday. However, your JOB and your ACTIONS in that ROLE that I have seen are what I am criticizing, not you as a person. Likewise, calling you "Baghdad Ophelea" shouldn't be seen as an attack on your actual person; it isn't; we don't know you well enough to make such a statement. However, it IS an attack on your "public/online persona", and a well-justified one, too, in my book. Lastly, taking offense from something that was said here... good! That's pretty much the whole point. For everyone to rant and offend and, at the end of the day, maybe glean some tiny grain of sense from it all (that goes for both ranters and rantees). If you take ANYTHING that is said here personally and let it bother you more than maybe the TINIEST bit, then you're missing the point.
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Post by akuma on Oct 29, 2006 17:21:50 GMT
Seeing how it is way off topic anyway, my 2 cents worth is I can't figure out why anyone would still be paying if they dislike the game so much ~shrug~ . There has to be some reason if that anyone will pay whatever the monthly fee is after all this time, even if it is to use the game as nothing more to them than a graphical chat room. I find it hard to believe after all this time anyone could still be hanging on to the hope of a miracle patch.
On the Baghdad lady part , I guess lawyers and PR people have a lot in common in that they are payed to look out for the client's best interest, and if that means stretching the truth then so be it. If you are going to be thin skinned then I don't think either would be a wise career choice. Quite frankly when I saw the Baghdad Lady moniker I did not think of Saddam's genocide but of that infamous scene withthe American tanks in the background that Phar mentioned.
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Post by gopal on Oct 29, 2006 17:56:34 GMT
First, I'm not completely agreeing with Tant or Philip, but...
If doing what you are paid to do or told to do gets you some "evil" nickname, maybe you should take a real hard look at what you were doing that got you that name. Lying (even if its not your lie) or spinning half-truths are TRULY DESERVING of ire of distrust of loathing. Much like my belief about not supporting companies that spout the shit AE/Tulga did and now EII does, I don't believe in giving any leeway to liers and spindoctors when they say, "I was just doing what I was told to do." Get a fucking different job if you don't like the backlash.
EDIT: Ya, so basically what Pharc said, just shorter.
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Post by phillip on Oct 29, 2006 21:38:46 GMT
Ophelea, I didn't give you that name. You earned it.
And no, one does not need to belong to a certain circle to learn of it.
The term 'Baghdad' in this instance got nothing to do with murderers. Similar to calling someone a "grammar nazi", or "food nazi". Indirectly from the Nazis, but has nothing to do with the National Socialist German Workers Party.
It is only a word, nothing more. It is our collective understanding for what it came to symbolize, the feeling that it inspires, that makes it detestable. I shouldn't have to explain this to people.
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Post by landowyn on Oct 29, 2006 22:44:21 GMT
Ya know Phillip? I'm pretty damned tired of the whole "baghdad" moniker that only you and Tant seem to use. If the shoe fits . . . . Seems to me they have. Let's take just one example. Back when DB was running the show and all the Tier VI resources that had been in the game since the merge were suddenly stripped out, you posted (in response to numerous complaints about this abrupt change) that there had been no changes at all . . . that this was all part of the original plan of the game. As Smeglor has stated in this very thread, there never was a design document for Horizons after beta. Indeed, DB refused Smeglor's request to allow one to be drawn up. Kind of hard to have a "plan" for a game when you don't even have a design document for it, huh? There never was any plan for the game. Your dearest buddy DB simply shot from the hip, explaining why there was never any real direction. I (and I would suspect most of the other Horizons veterans here) could go on and on listing all the bullshit you spouted on the boards trying to cover up DB's total inability to manage Horizons, but we'll leave it that this one example for now. All you ever did was the job you were paid to do . . . . Funny, that's what Baghdad Bob said after Saddam was toppled and Bob wound up in Cairo. Oh, I seem to recall a couple thousand SS Deathshead concentration camp guards saying the same thing when they were prosecuted after WWII. Oh now, Baghdad Bob is something of a pop icon. Nobody, and I mean nobody, in recent memory could tell such whoppers with such a wonderfully straight face and actually expect to be believed. So think of it this way, Ophelea, we're just giving you your due as a gaming PR icon . . . . This post goes completely over the line and defines you as a first-class jerk. Get a grip, it's a fucking game and Ophelea was being paid to do a fucking job. Your retorts do nothing more than mark you (and Phillip, I might add) as an officious jerk. I rarely get upset with things, even on this wide open board, but you need to get over Horizons, what is was, what it is and what it's never going to be.
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Kulamata
Unemployed
Mane Man
Posts: 1,362
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Post by Kulamata on Oct 29, 2006 23:12:22 GMT
A game, enjoyed by the discriminating few, cognoscenti of the MMO space; still running, albeit with a limp, but then it always had a creak or three.
New owners, committing their own blunders, but off to a promising beginning. Quite a few promises in fact.
So, from that, why are ex- and current players flaying one another? It wasn't the players who cut Remedial Program Management class; it wasn't the players who forced premature release, or bungled customer relations, or, or, or....
This business of turning on those whom you can reach, instead of those deserving, is like a rabid rat.
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Post by akuma on Oct 29, 2006 23:38:07 GMT
I love it when you talk dirty to each other
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Post by FrithRae on Oct 29, 2006 23:58:58 GMT
as a mod, yup its been hijacked... However, the only person who can request things be moved I believe is the person who started the thread. Thems the last rules we voted in . But I been sayin' things needed to go to the PVP forum between a couple of people here for awhile now - come on guys - that forum doesn't get near enough use! Come on - go sling it there! I never had issues iwth Ophelia, and I still don't. I don't reallyu have issues iwth Peaches. They are doing the job they are told to do. You may not like that job, but guess what - lots of people have those jobs. Lawyers included. Tant can make fun of himself, we can make fun of lawyers, and him not take it personally. I'd advise Ophelia to read Mor..er Phar's post and realize it really isn't anything personal. But hten I could point to the hypocricacy that was dumped on me when I compared people enjoying the pain of others (by clapping as Hz falls) to going and viewing ogrish.com and then Vinea called me a Cath. Ultimately offensive, but apparently Ophelia is feeling the same that the monikor is lumping her in with things that are far and away worse than what she's doing. So I have to agree with that. Cuz ultimately, no, I don't think the phrase does fit - no matter how light you try and make it. However, in the end Ophelia, and Amon you too - you know rule number one around here. As Phar resaid it - its nothing personal. DOn't take anything here personal, because in the end you wind up defending yourself to a bunch of nobodies on an online forum who don't even know who you really are. Our opinions shouldn't matter all THAT much, so instead you should laugh at our insignificance in your lives and our oversummation therefore, of our importance in same!
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Post by maddwarf on Oct 30, 2006 0:53:27 GMT
Both Phillip and tant are not really in sync with things these days.
Phillip goes around bashing anyone who questions EII's ability while still burning Bowman and Tulga at the stake. He will be bashing EII hard in the next couple of months while still playing the game and claiming he can bash them because he is waiting for another game. Meanwhile he will be guilty of being a hypocrite to his own words here and everywhere else at this time. Mark my words it will happen just as it has in the past. So perhaps he oughta consider that before calling the kettle black eh ?
Tantylar... well I do not know what his gig is other than to continue his usual verbal assault on anyone who says something contradictory to his beliefs. It makes him feel big or something
Ophelea ? well I believe she has been labeled unfairly. If anything I believe she was to naive in that she believed everything Bowman has ever said. I do not believe she was complicit in anything and did was she was told and believed it. She isn't the first person nor will she ever be the last to be suckered by a snake oil salesmen like Bowman. I never believed anything she said but you always knew she took her role very seriously.
Either way Horizons is a sad chapter in the MMO world.
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Post by tantalyr on Oct 30, 2006 1:05:25 GMT
Ophelea ? well I believe she has been labeled unfairly. If anything I believe she was to naive in that she believed everything Bowman has ever said. I do not believe she was complicit in anything and did was she was told and believed it. She isn't the first person nor will she ever be the last to be suckered by a snake oil salesmen like Bowman. I never believed anything she said but you always knew she took her role very seriously. Maddy, you have just described Baghdad Bob to perfection. The defense rests.
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Post by Pharcellus on Oct 30, 2006 1:13:55 GMT
Like Phillip said, we shouldn't have to explain this, but I guess it is a Law of Verbal Communication that people equivocate to suit their own ends. So, to wit: "Baghdad Ophelea" is likened to the CARICATURE (if you don't know what that is, fuckin' look it up) of the Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, nicknamed "Baghdad Bob", for his hilariously outlandish statements of misinformation and propaganda in the Gulf War, Episode 2. They were SOOO bad, that only the most uninformed and witless people COULD believe them; sadly, that probably covers a good deal of the Baghdad population of the era, since they had nothing else to contrast his statements with, except al-Jazeera TV, assuming it wasn't jammed or otherwise blocked. Anyway, what happened in the actual war is irrelevant to the approbation, because the POINT is to paint a deprecatory picture of someone's behavior AS IF it was on the same lavel of the caricature. The only basis in fact for it is simply the outlandishness of MSS' statements, NOT the fact that the Iraqi regime under Saddam was brutal, genocidal, gross, OR just plain evil. As such, the only reason for getting incensed over it is as a plea for pity, by exaggerating the scope of the approbation to include things that NO ONE EVER suggested it was inclusive of. EVER. PERIOD. END OF FUCKIN' STORY. So, no, request for pity denied. You lied outlandishly. Baghdad Bob lied outlandishly. For the instance of your tenure at Tulga Games, Baghdad Ophelea works as a deprecative approbation for use by those who disapproved of your poor handling of the subject which reminded them of the silliness of Baghdad Bob. Personally, I don't think you hold a candle in the wind compared to Baghdad Bob for the volume and depth of incredulousness of his statements, but if he's the ultimate epitome of such a thing, you definitely were in the race for his crown. While I have no end of ire for EII and their current crop of stupidity, I definitely think your fucked attempted coup from the forum software license angle was kinda lame. You should have talked to David to make sure that the license was indeed properly transferred (or was supposed to be as part of the deal, as you admitted in the latest MMORPG.com article on the subject) before you shot your mouth off in the forums, getting yourself banned in the process. Not that it mattered to you, of course (the getting banned part, that is), but it sure reinforced a lot of peoples' opinions about how you operate in this industry.
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Post by akuma on Oct 30, 2006 1:15:03 GMT
Q. How can you tell when a PR person is lying? A. Their lips move.
Q. What is the difference between a catfish and a PR person? A. One is a bottom dwelling scavenger the other is a fish.
Q: What do PR people use for birth control? A: Their personalities.
Q. If you drop a snake and an PR spokesperson off the Empire State Building, which one hits first? A: Who cares?
Q. What does a PR person do after sex? A. Pays the bill.
feel free to substitute lawyer for PR and may all of you have a nice fucking day
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Post by tantalyr on Oct 30, 2006 1:21:28 GMT
Naw Akuma, here are REAL lawyer jokes . . .
Q: What's the difference between a dead snake in the road and a dead lawyer in the road? A: The snake will have skid marks in front of it.
Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a gorilla in a 3-piece suit? A: The lawyer . . . no wait, the gorilla . . . no, the lawyer . . . wait, the gorilla . . . .
Q: What do you call 500 lawyers drowning at the bottom of the sea? A: A good start
Q: What do you do if you have a gun with only 2 bullets and you have a lawyer, Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong Il in front of you? A: Shoot the lawyer twice to make sure he's dead
Q: What's the difference between lawyers and hookers? A: Hookers stop fucking you when you're dead.
Well damn. I guess you could substitute PR for Lawyer . . . .
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Post by tantalyr on Oct 30, 2006 1:24:18 GMT
The funniest, well . . . maybe depending on your point of view, the saddest . . . thing about Baghdad Bob was he wasn't even listed on the Coalition's "Most Wanted" card deck. He didn't even make 53 (the "Joker" in every card deck).
Sad, just sad. Or really, really funny . . . .
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Post by akuma on Oct 30, 2006 1:24:25 GMT
. Well damn. I guess you could substitute PR for Lawyer . . . . Now yer getting it. ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I did a few months with the Navy Recruiters down in Florida going around and talking to high school and college students. I'd like to say I never lied, but then I would be lying. You can bet your cat ass old Uncle Akuma was the fucking A hero of every story too.
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